Well, I heard this rumor.... Have any of you ever taken one of TA's aluminum V6 heads and compared it to a stock head from the earlier SBB's? Not the 350 but it's earlier brethern. Personally I haven't but what I hear is that they're so close that a moldmaker could cut-n-paste two of them together and come out with a mold for an early SBB with very little work at all. Whereas to make a head for the 350 gets all complicated by having to move all of the runners around. Now if this is true, and I'm not claiming it is mind you, it could be practical to make some castings in fairly short order. These castings should be capable of being fitted to any of the SBB blocks up to the 340 including the Rovers also. Now I know this doesn't sound like anything wonderful to all the 350 guys, but consider this. All it would take for you to be able to use these heads would be a set of 340 headers, a 340 intake, a 340 cam, and a set of cam bearing sleeves to make them fit the 350 block. What do you guys think of this? Is that a good rumor, or is it just completely out of the question to have to go through the back door that way to get good aluminum heads on a 350? I thought maybe it was a good rumor. Especially since I'm building a 340. But I also think I know some guys who'd be willing to go to the trouble of fitting these to the 350 (It's a few pounds lighter than the 340 right?) I'm really looking forward to hearing what you guys think of this rumor. Jim
i thought that rumor was for making a 350 head set...cutting out and rearanging the intake/exhuast sequence? as for aluminum heads for a 300/340 wouldnt it be easier to find an modify ones off a 64 300? and yes the 350 is lighter then both the iron 300 and 340..i belivethe iron 300 weighs 464 give or take...its in the 350 weight thread i wish ta would make vortec style heads for us sbb guys then chebby wont haven any real advantages over sbb
Can't blame you there. Me, I wish I had a Ferrari V-12 with 600 cu/in displacement that would fit in my MG and not overheat. Maybe someday, huh? Jim
i think aluminum shrinks quite a bit when cast, so any "pattern's" would have to be a bit larger than the finished part.. so just using cast iron heads as a mold would probably not work.
I understand that the stage II Rover V-8 heads From Wildcat engineering are essentially a Buick stage II V-6 pattern. They even use the same valves and hardware.
How much difference would there be from those to the TA V6 head? Are the TA V6 heads as much better than stock as their BBB heads are? Anyway I'm sure anyone in the business of casting heads would know how to make the molds. I'm kinda surprised though that nobody has commented yet on using these on the 350. Could it be that there just isn't that much demand for an aluminum head to fit that engine? Guess talk is cheap though. Jim
there has been talk about using V6 aluminum heads, cutting them up and welding 'um back together, resurfacing, and running 'um as is.. but finding (AT LEAST) 3 heads and someone well versed enough in welding aluminum can prove to be a problem
yea, so true...my mig with a $40 kit can weld aluminum...but still trying to get a hang of mig to where i'm at with stick and oxy..
Yeah, I wouldn't want to take on that job, ever. Well, time will tell if anything is going to come of it, but if the decision is made to proceed, I suspect it would be a short road from there to actual sales since all the tooling is already there. For my part, I have a set of '64 300 heads and a blower so it's not that big of an issue for me. But I'd like to see some other guys choose the 340 or 350 SBB as a V8 conversion engine for their MG's. In terms of weight it's about the same as the 302 ford and a good set of aftermarket aluminum heads is just the edge they need. 'Course I may have already said more than I should have. Jim
you can oxy/fuel weld aluminum and it's supposedly MUCH better, once you get the hang of it.. i imagine it's like welding babbitt.. VERY low temps involvedo No: this guy is well versed in it, teaches classes, and sells supplies: http://www.tinmantech.com/html/aluminum_welding_article.php
Here are some pictures of the Wildcat stage II heads... Wildcatstage II pic 1 Wildcatstage II pic 2 Wildcatstage II pic 3
I'd like to see someone reply to that question who has actually tried it and can say either yes it will or exactly what is different. I'm not that person, I don't have a 350 block. But I suspect it will fit. Is it a good idea? Normally you would think not. The alloy head has small valves and needs very serious and expensive work to make it breathe well enough for a N/A 350 and even then I think you run into limitations that make it a less effective head than the cast iron 350 head or even the iron 300/340 head. With a blower like I'm using or turbo the picture gets changed very significantly, and while all out maximum horsepower is still going to be less than what you can do with an iron head and the same setup otherwise, for a less than max engine you can significantly increase the area under the power curve, widen the torque curve greatly, and still get good top end power by making use of the head restriction as the limiting factor on the blower and allowing boost levels to be much higher below that point than they would be with a free flowing head. But that's another topic. So take for instance a set of those Wildcat heads just posted, or a head derived from the TA V6 head and put those on a 350 and the whole picture changes dramatically. Would it be worth doing then? I guess it depends on the cost of the heads. Those Wildcats are right pricey. I've heard figures around $4500 for a set. But they flow as much as 150 cfm right out of the box according to their website. On the other hand, I've seen claims of 190/250 cfm for the TA V6 heads with the Chevy valves, and they make one bigger than that. Just how significant is that difference? Well, I don't know, factor in the cost of a set of TA heads and I'd say it looks like a clear winner. But that's just me. What do I know? Jim
if i had a spare set of 300 heads i'd most likely try it or if my brother decides to put a cam in his i could test it then, but that wont get out of his schools autobody till mid june..
Have any of you ever taken one of TA's aluminum V6 heads and compared it to a stock head from the earlier SBB's? well they should be similiar. the 231ci / 3.8L v6 is a SBB 300v8 with the front two cylinders knocked off and and the 350 SBB bore diameter. you'll notice that 225ci ( the 1960s odd fire Buick v6 ) is exactly 3/4 of 300ci. that's not an accident. What do you guys think of this? Is that a good rumor, or is it just completely out of the question to have to go through the back door that way to get good aluminum heads on a 350? well, seeing as how i might very well be the original source for that rumor i think it's fan-frigging-tastic. i've been making comments along these lines every so often for about two years ( more? ) now on V8Buick. i was the one who bumped TA to correct their valve order info on their Buick engine history page. in fact, i jumped up and down on Sean pretty hard when he started talking to Mike T about the 350 alum head project on this very subject. but that was all in pm. another benefit to the "Rover" style head is that the exhaust ports are all separated, which would give you better heat balance for extreme performance apps. i thought that rumor was for making a 350 head set...cutting out and rearanging the intake/exhuast sequence? yes, i've made this point here before as well. the 1st ( 215 & Rover ) and 2nd gen style head ( 300, 340 ) would just need another combustion chamber added to one end. to get a 350 valve order you would have to do a cut and paste. the "Rover" style head siameses the center intake runners while the 350 siameses the center exhausts. wouldnt it be easier to find an modify ones off a 64 300? water passages severely restrict how much the alum 300 runners can be ported. most of the 300/340 guys prefer to go with cast iron heads for this reason. two sbbs welded together haha you probably noticed my post where i pointed out that this has been done with the 215 block. it was a custom one-off by a PacNW boat builder IIRC. I understand that the stage II Rover V-8 heads From Wildcat engineering 3 issues. 1 - availability. they can't even hardly buy them in England, there is no marketing to the States 2 - price. they ain't cheap 3 - overseas shipping 'Course I may have already said more than I should have. i would say "yes, you have", but i don't have the resources to do anything about this anyways. so, what the hell, put it out there. the feedback i was getting from Sean was that Mike didn't sound all that excited about it. the roadblock for something like this is the installed base of aluminum 350 intakes ( which i suggested a solution for ) and, more generally, the fact that making this swap would require changing everything on the top end of the engine. but considering that there is almost nothing in the way of a SBB 350 performance scene, now is the time to make this change if it's ever going to get done. once TA starts producing IE IE EI EI valve order heads they will have forever locked the SBB 350 out of potential top end parts compatibility with the world at large ( which primarily uses the Rover engine with an EI EI IE IE valve order ). considering the way the world is going, shouldn't we be looking at making products that we could sell ex-US? o No:
