A sweet sbb 350 combos if anyone is thinking of building one.

These nascar take out rods would be great for a sbb 350 build;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391093493565?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

They are small journal sbc rods so the sbc rod bearings will work no problem for a 2.00" rod journal size or undersizes available for the small journal sbc. The big end needs to be narrowed to the Buick .845" size and the .927" wristpin diameter can be opened up to the bigger Buick .940" size for an off the shelf piston.

The pistons that I would use with this combo would be a set of these;


http://www.buyracingparts.com/pisto...totec-forged-350-buick-dished-piston-kit.html

Don't let the $649.00 price tag scare you off because a set of premium rings are included and the piston is made to order so changes to the bore size, compression distance, wristpin size, and dish volume can be made for no additional cost.

These rods and pistons set for a sbb would be a bullet proof combo that could handle spinning more than the block and crank can handle. A combo to test the RPM capability of the new intake and when the heads come out! Or for the boost fans out there change the pistons to a 2618 alloy and crank up that boost to 20 PSI and have some fun!

The rods being SO close to the factory center to center distance some off the shelf V6 turbo pistons are a possibility to use for some boost fun. Factory rods are 6.385" long so the nascar ones are only .015" longer, most uncut factory block's deck heights have more than twice that extra on them.


Another set of sweet nascar take out rods for a plus .100" mini stroker sbb with these rods;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151216114779?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

These rods have forced oiling to the wristpins if they are set up to use that option, doesn't look like there is a hole in the bushings to use the oiling but the bushings can be removed and ran with out a bushing when the forced oiling is used. The size without the bushings in them is probably the standard sbc size of .927" which can be easily opened up to the sbb size if that is the case. If selecting these rods keep in mind that the rod journals on the crank needs to be turned down to the 1.889" size. The crank doesn't have to be offset ground for more stroke but since its being cut down anyway might as well? These rods are priced $250 less than the other rods but look like nicer rods IMO and who wouldn't like .100" more stroke.

These rods are .840" wide on the big end so they are .005" thinner than a factory sbb rod which give .010" more side clearance which is just fine for a performance build. So no narrowing needed to use these rods. If the AutoTec pistons are chosen then the wristpin size can be what the bushing is @ .787" or the bushings can be pressed out to order the pistons with the sbc size.

No need to worry about having the crank cut down .100" because it has been done before with great results that handled up to 750 HP(Finishline Performance) and 10,000 RPM(gsjohnny). A '73 or newer crank would be easier to make it an internal balanced rotating assembly if that's what the engine owner wants.

These rods are listed at 500 grams, that is about 150 grams lighter than a '73 or newer factory rod! So if staying with an external balance the '72 and older crank would be less material to take off of the crank. These are only .015" shorter than the factory length @ 6.370" long.

If anyone is interested in one of the above combos and have questions feel free to post them on this thread, I will help as much as I can because I would love to see more bad ass sbb 300 and 350 builds happening.

Need to post this before my computer locks up and I lose what I wrote, I'll add more info later.



Derek

 

Quite the combos there. So, with the first set of rods and pistons, the rods needs narrowing on the big end, opening up on the small end and are .015" longer. If the pistons are sold as "9.5:1" what is your best guess on a factory block that has the factory piston .030" (maybe .020" after decking for square) in the hole? Would this combo then be .015" (.005" after decking) in the hole?

Sounds like a pretty sweet combo and nearly bullet proof.

 

what took you so long in finding the stuff on ebay? surprised nobody bought them. offer them $300.00 on the 6.4's

 

LOL! Those 2 sets of rods have been in my watch list for months, I finally made a thread for them. And I doubt they'll let the 6.400" rods go for $300. If anyone makes an offer they need to remember they only have 3 tries then you will either have to pay the buy it now price or wait I think its 30 days before you have 3 more tries.(or have someone else make an offer for you with their eBay account

I would start with a $450 bid for the 6.400" rods and see if they give an counter offer. GL

The 6.370" rods priced at $350 are nicer and lighter than the 6.400" rods, might be able to get them for $265 that's where I would start my offer anyway to see if a counter offer pops up. GL(the 6.370" rods are the ones I would try to buy if I was going to do a sbb build)



Derek

 

Yes the first set need to be narrowed on the big end, the wristpin size can stay .927" if the AutoTec pistons are ordered to use with them because they will change the wristpin size for free. If a different off the shelf Buick piston is used then the wristpin hole needs to be opened up for those.

A virgin never rebuilt sbb 350 will be at least plus .025" taller deck height than the factory spec of 10.187" so the extra .015" rod length won't hurt a thing. Also if you use the AutoTec pistons the compression distance and the dish volume can be changed to dial in whatever compression ratio you want, they even sell those pistons as flat tops if you want a race engine compression ratio. So in other words after the block is square decked with a minimum clean up the AutoTec pistons can be ordered to whatever compression distance and dish volume that will work for your block to get the pistons at zero deck.

If these head gaskets are used;

http://www.buyracingparts.com/gaskets/buick-350-severe-duty-head-gaskets.html

For a .045" quench height the piston would need to be set .005" above the deck because their compressed thickness is .050". These are extreme performance head gaskets that can handle 20 PSI of boost and not necessary for a N/A build.


Derek

 

I have bought from seatmon before. do the 300. if they say no, ask them why they love them so much. I don't think there is anybody else out there that could/would use them.

 

That sounds like great advice. But the question who would use them the answer is someone with a sbc with a small journal crank. That's why they have those priced so high is because they can be used in a couple different popular engines, like an LS stroker, and a sbc w/small journal crank even a sbc large journal crank engine with the rod journals cut down with no narrowing or wristpin hole enlargement needed, and that's why the big price tag. They like to price the rods with a decent wristpin size a lot more because a lot of off the self pistons will work with them.

But they have been sitting there for a while so your technique could work?!! Would like to see someone build a potent sbb 350 using these or the other rods I posted!

Any offerers out there? With these for $300 like gsjohnny says one badass sbb 350 can be built!!! Those rods were engineered to handle over 10,000 RPM and over 900 HP!! One part to never have to worry about when building a sbb 350, the crank or the block should fail before these rods.

I do like the other ones more though but the rod journals on the crank would need to be cut down to use them.

Gsjohnny, with your nascar take out rods you're using in your engine how was the cam clearance with them? You had to have your crank cut down to 1.889" if I remember correctly? Thanks


Derek

 

are you sure they are chevy. mine were fords. rousch I think. rods are 1.88's but using Honda brand bearings, not clevite, because they are softer. less crank damage. btw...are we suppose to check for rod/cam clearance......don't remember.

 

Yes the 6.400" are a sbc rod, they have the .940" big end width and the .927" wristpin size. Probably ran in a "Chevy" nascar engine or in an old Bow-Tie block? Not sure they don't say where the rods are from though so I'm guessing but I'm sure they probably weren't out of a Ford.

There is several different styles of nascar take out rods on eBay, so make sure when searching for a set to make sure they are .840" to .940" wide on the big end to make them work with a sbb. It is easier to remove material than to put it back on.

So I take it you didn't check for cam clearance, the rods with the 2.015" or 2.008" housing bore are probably not as wide as a rod with a 2.125" housing bore so that probably helped, plus you didn't add stroke helped as well probably.


Derek

 

So I take it you didn't check for cam clearance.....

didn't know I could collect money for my work.......

 

If that's top secret info for paying clients only, that's cool I can understand that. So lets say the rods do need to be cam clearanced, would you be the guy to send the rods to for the top secret treatment for an undisclosed purchase amount?

So yeah the question wasn't how the question was do they need? When I get that far I'll let everyone know so no worries keep it to yourself if that's the way you feel.

I do remember that Jim Blackwell I think his name is had to do some cam clearancing when he built the sbb 340 for his MG using 7.00" aftermarket Flat Head Ford H-beam rods. Now that was a good thread!

The sbc 434 I'm building for a client will be using Eagle H-beam rods that were bought with the cam clearance machined on them already so not so top secret I don't think. That machining looks easily duplicated so no big deal, the machining cuts right into the bolt on one side for these, Buick isn't the only cam clearance challenged engine out there. If anyone wants a small block without any cam clearance issues build a Mopar 340, a 4.25" stroke crank will drop right in with no clearance issues.



Derek

 

I was just kidding about the money part. I never even thought about checking for clearance. didn't even plastigage the rod bearings. drives my machine guy crazy. told them they did it right because it hasn't blown up yet. lol


I keep no secrets on my stuff. all you need to do is ask.

 

Well in that case cool thanks gsjohnny!

So a couple more questions then, are you running a roller cam or a flat tappet cam?

What is the lobe lift if the grind isn't an off the shelf grind?

And is your cam a small base circle cam or a standard cam?

Also advancing the cam will sometimes increase the cam clearance and retarding it will reduce the cam clearance, so how is your cam installed?

Thanks again gsjohnny, lets get the info out there so more people will build some strong running sbb 350s!!

I went for a ride in Mart's GS 350 car a couple of weeks ago and man that little 350 runs strong!! I was helping him set his A/F ratios with his other carb I think it was a Demon carb. Anyway he has a huge roller cam with the duration @ .050 in the 250* range! And the lift over .550 range! If Mart reads this he can fill in the cam specs if he wants or not.

With the way he setup his combo to all work together the car feels like he should be able to be somewhere in the 12s! Not much low end torque, but he has a 200R4 and a 3.90 rear gear to make up for it, the 10.5 in compression helps as well!! 3.90 X 2.74 = 10.686:1 first gear multiplication ratio! Killing the low end torque with that kind of gearing was the smart thing to do. But he definitely needs a better short block to handle the RPM capabilities of that cam, man that thing ramps up quick even with the TA dual plane!! Imagine that cam with the new single plane how the RPM would fly!!!

Been trying to talk him into a stroker build, that cam would love more CID! But then again other stuff would probably start breaking if he did that? Would be a whole lot of fun to play find the weak link though. LOL He is thinking to maybe just stay with a 355 low end that can handle much more RPM when the TA heads come out. Unless he gets sick of how fast he will bounce off of the rev limiter with the new intake!

Who says sbb 350s won't run?! Aftermarket support definitely would help if someone can just bolt one together and have it run like a summana gun there would probably be a lot more interest? This is what this thread I started is for, to try and give the formula for a solid rotating assembly that's not only stronger than factory but much lighter for when(if) the sbb 350 heads do come out to use with the new intake and not blow up using the new parts. The little sbb 350 with boost can run better than ANY factory cast iron block 455 without a girdle and give the girdled block 455 builds a run for their money, and the 350 still without a girdle! Run a girdle and a billet crank in a 350 with a bunch of boost and there won't be any factory cast iron girdled block that would be able to keep up without blowing up! LOL Sorry 455 guys but the sbb 350 is a much stronger block.


Derek

 

We have 1 girdle left for the 350 from the first run, will be planning another run whenever we get some orders.
Like you said, with intake and heads the 350 could really spin and a girdle is good insurance, especially boosted.
Gar

 

Hey

I went for a ride in Mart's GS 350 car a couple of weeks ago and man that little 350 runs strong!! I was helping him set his A/F ratios with his other carb I think it was a Demon carb. Anyway he has a huge roller cam with the duration @ .050 in the 250* range! And the lift over .550 range! If Mart reads this he can fill in the cam specs if he wants or not.

Derek[/QUOTE]

Just a 350 with a big cam cause everybody says you can't. :Brow::moonu::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

ok

 

Quote Originally Posted by 300sbb_overkill View Post

well in that case cool thanks gsjohnny!

So a couple more questions then, are you running a roller cam or a flat tappet cam?
Flat

what is the lobe lift if the grind isn't an off the shelf grind?
Ta290-08h, 1.65 rkrs

and is your cam a small base circle cam or a standard cam?
No idea what ta sold me

also advancing the cam will sometimes increase the cam clearance and retarding it will reduce the cam clearance, so how is your cam installed?
In the round hole. Straight up

thanks again gsjohnny, lets get the info out there so more people will build some strong running sbb 350s!!
Still don't like strokers. Probably good for bonneville.



Thanks for the answers(and making them funny! LOL), the above should make them easier to read.

You probably wouldn't mind more stroke with a bigger bore. Andy's block sonic checked good enough to make it a 4.00" bore, but he wanted to run boost so we kept more material in the bores and only going to take out .103" for a 3.903" bore size.(the extra .003" is for the popular ring sizes) A 4.00" bore with a 3.990" stroke would make a 401 sbb! This is the way I would go if I was building this for me, a N/A 401 cid sbb!

With a standard stroke and a 4.00" bore it would be a 387 cid sbb. With the 1.889" nascar take out rods the crank can be destroked to 3.75" with a 4.00" bore and make it a 377 cid sbb and really spin the snot out of it!! As long as you can find a block as good as the one for Andy's build the possibilities are plenty, even a sbb 300 crank could be made to work in a sbb 350 block if you want even less stroke.



Derek

 

You are close, Derek:
255 dur, .584 lift.
Where's the rest of the SP3's. I'm waiting.......

 

That's a HUGE cam for a 350!!! That thing will never run!!! LOL!!


Derek

 

Well the bad news is that the 6.400" rods are sold and the good news is that the 6.370" rods are listed for less now, $200 or best offer!

They only weigh 500 grams(factory cap screw rods are 650 to 690 grams) and are 3 times stronger than the factory cap screw rods! They have the extra thick bushings in them if removed are more than likely .927" diameter without them, if not a set of AutoTec pistons that you can chose your pin size would be great with these rods. They look like they are forced oiled wristpins if the added bushings are removed and the bearings drilled. Using the forced wristpin oiling they are just begging for RPM!

They can probably be bought for $150 shipped! That's less than paying for reconditioning a set of stock rods without buying new bolts!, add bolts in and you're around $260 to recon, buy and have new bolts installed! These rods would be over $2,000 if you bought them new.

For the $$ you save for not having to buy new bolts can be used to have the crank ground to the 1.889" rod journal size. You can either have the crank stroked up to an extra .100" or just have the crank index ground to the stock stroke to the 1.889" rod journal size. if anyone is worried about having that much material taken off, there have been people that have taken the sbb 350 to over 750 HP with an extra .100" stroke with the rod journals taken down to 1.889" and 370 cid.


These rods will bolt right in with the crank's rod journals ground down to the 1.889" rod journal size and the soft bearings are made for this size so the crank doesn't have to be heat treated. Anyone considering building a better than the norm disappointing sbb 350 stock type build these rods are a great way to go. I'm tempted to buy these rods because they are so nice!(even though I don't have anything for them to go in at this time, LOL) Even doing a Gary "stock" type blueprint build these rods would be a good way to go.

With the bushings removed the wristpin holes can be opened up to .940" for press fit pins if they're .927" without the bushings which most of the rods I have seen with the .787" pin size with the thick bushings in them they were .927" without the bushings with the forced oiling.


Mart, if you're reading this, these rods would be a good addition before you install the SP3 on your engine while they're on sale! First highest acceptable bid wins! GL




Derek