Picked up this motor and a TH400 transmission for $200. Couldn't pass it up. :shock: I've done a little research and found that this motor is a small valve, low compression, low hp stock motor. And since these motors have a smaller bore and longer stroke than the Chevy 350, I've read the term "torque monster" several times. I'm intrigued to see what can be accomplished on a somewhat low budget. For the Buick 350, what would be the best pair of stock heads? Are these motors 2 or 4 bolt mains? How difficult and expensive is it to pull 400-500 hp from these motors? My thought is to go with 4x2 after market intake and a pair of 450 cfm carburetors. Thoughts? I'm told that the exhaust manifolds are 2 or 2 1/2 inch, headers not really needed? I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, it was an impulse buy. :grin: But I'm liking the 65/66 Buick GS.
hi, welcome to the site. Although I don't have all the technical answers you request you have definitely come to the right place. There are some guys on here that will amaze you with their small block Buick knowledge. The 65 Skylark is a good choice, I really like that body style. Check out some of the build threads in members rides section. This is one of my favorite Buicks: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?186559-65-GS-4spd-Post-Sedan
Welcome. The only real down side to the engine you have is the low compression pistons. Swap them out with high comp versions (bore if needed) and the engine is as good as any other year Buick 350. There are only two intake options both from Ta performance. Dual plane and single plane. Head porting is where the power is with these engines. Or leave it low compression and add a turbocharger they love boost.
welcome. the 350 is a light small block. durable. but 2 x4barrel intakes will need to be custom. you might be able to modify the 455 intake to fit as someone mentioned in a different post. 300-360 hp is easy to get from these engines with 400 lbs torque or more. over 400 hp takes some work. these are 2 bolt main engines. the 71 heads are fine for hp builds. but bigger valves are recommended as well as a good port job- 245 cfm or better intake port flow is a big increase and will help open up its ability. exhaust manifolds are 2 in ,TA performance has downpipes for 2.5 from manifolds. headers needed to make 400 plus hp. 2 intakes available are both from TA, a single plane (sp3) and a dual plane(stage 1). some old "poston" intakes maybe be found(dual plane). If its a good runner and you don't want to rebuild it you can focus on heads,big valves,porting shave heads .060 off heads will net 9.45 compression(with 42 cc head chambers). decent for some cams out there. I mentioned this combo in a post for a 68-69 350 with a crower level 3 cam and 3.23-3.42 gears would make a great street engine . your dynamic compression should be around 7.5 .which is in the right range for this cam and low end torque. or go .075 off head for a 39 cc chamber and about 9.75 compression then TA 284/310(and others) or a custom grind from butracingparts.com(scott brown) cam will work well. make great power and the single plane intake will work well with. shaving heads will require shorter pushrods and possibly shaving intake side of heads slightly . get a higher stall convertor matched to cam and alittle extra since the 400 trans has less 1st gear then a 350 trans , get a 3 series rear gear. 3.42 works well in most cases. 3.73 for more aggressive cams. 3.23 for lower end torque cams these engine can be sonic tested for large overbores for bigger cubes and autotec can take care of the pistons for that (buyracingparts.com) the 64-65 buick a body cars are pretty light and with 300/340 mount the 350 should bolt in. these engines wil also bolt to gbody 3.8 v6 cars using v6 mounts(78-87 buick regals and such)
If your "somewhat low budget" is around $3,000 then with sonic testing as Andy mentioned to see if the bore can take .100" or more overbore, have the crank stroker ground to 3.990" so you can use of eBay nascar take out rods you should be able to make your HP goals no problem with ported heads. GL Derek
Also note these 350s are only about 450 pounds vs the typical Sbc that is a lot more. Also note that although the blocks are only 2 bolt mains they are very strong and can handle 700+ hp without any issues. I added a block girdle to mine but that should be good for 1200+ hp.
What if he wants more than 600 HP without a jock strap? The sbb has proven to be able to handle over 750 HP with a factory crank with the rod journals turned down to 1.850" to a 3.990" stroke and no girdle. What is the max your 455 can put out without a jock strap(full girdle)? LOL to you. LOL! :Brow: Derek
Maybe from a SBC... Where are all these SBB engines with 600 hp at??? I have seen nothing but dreaming..uzzled:
if you want to go the dual quad route, its either a small block mopar d/q or a buick 455 d/q. both require work to make either work. been there, done that. if you're going to race a lot, desert gears are worthless for the 350. you will need to get out of the3 ratio's into the 4's. if you build it right in the beginning, you should have no problems with it. for old technology, they are a great engine.
I had 420 hp and 465 tq on a rw dyno with 120 shot of nitrous and went 11.81@114 spinning tires out of the hole with a 3800lb car. how much hp does it take to go that fast. Also went 12.00 @110 with a 75hp shot. yeah, it aint no 455
Just busting your butss a little... It is and has taken too long to see many fast 350 Buick powered motors.. Though by now it would have picked up more..
moyock, you notice that some people just don't how to build the 350 with nothing available. they had to go to the 455.:laugh::laugh: lot to say about 'built, not bought'. :grin:
Well...I figured the only way to get my car faster than the 14's was to get it in the 12's by using a lightly modified 455. I got it done still early in my life that I could remember..Not like the "OLD" :Brow::Brow: guys still trying to get their little engines that fast...lol Seriously, what is the status on the TA aluminum 350 heads?? I want to see a streetable 350 in the 11's..Cmon guys..I changed my project now and a 350 really wont be correct,but I do have a nice second car that I wouldn't count out as a good candidate for a fast 350.For the record, I build all my cars myself as I am too poor to pay others to do my work...:TU:
Pat, the "built not bought" comment means you have to source parts from other engines to make the sbb 350 to even be able to handle making the big power. Unless of coarse a turbo is added, then the stock rotating assembly can handle putting out bigger numbers because of the cushioning effect that turbo charging has. If you want to build a sbb 350 to make power you don't need aluminum heads, the 68-72 cast iron heads respond very well to porting. Also nascar take out rods will enable the sbb to be able to spin more than 5,500 RPM without risking rod failure. But using the nascar take out rods require extra work to make then fit, that's where the "built not bought" comes into play, that and having the crank's rod journals ground down to the nascar take out journal size of 1.889" or 1.850" depending on which nascar rods you decided on using. There is a couple choices when taking this route, either maintain the stock stroke or have the crank offset ground an extra .090" or and extra .140"(the minus .010" is to make sure the journal cleans up all the way) depending on which rods you chose. After the rods and stroke is decided on then the piston choice would be next. AutoTec makes customizable pistons for the same price of the advertised size that can be made to work very well with the nascar take out rods that are 4032 forged alloy that would be great N/A pistons. Or if you want to play with boost then the 2618 alloy would be a better choice of material but it would more than likely need to be a custom which wouldn't be a bad way to go for an all out boosted build. Block machining, if you spring the extra around $100 plus or minus what ever your local shop charges for sonic testing you can maximize bore size to increase CID. Some sbb 350 blocks are thick enough to take to a 4.00" bore, but sonic testing would be needed to confirm how far your block can go. Increasing to a 3.990" stroke and boring to a 3.905" bore would yield 382 cubic inches.(3.905" not just 3.900" because of ring availability) If your block is thick enough to take to a 4.00" bore then with a 3.990" stroke you would have 401 cubic inches that would easily make the times you posted as a N/A engine/no power adder even using ported iron heads. The sbb 350 heads have basically the same flow potential as the 455 factory iron heads plus or minus 10 CFM. So with 30 or more cid and with a rod upgrade and a lighter rotating assembly with head porting spinning to 7,000 rpm would be no problem and would make some very decent power. Heads flowing in the 270 range on a 380 cid engine would be able to make 500 plus HP N/A pump gas friendly with 10:1 compression. Just because people haven't got off their wallets to build one doesn't mean it can't be done. Wouldn't really cost much more than a sbb 350 performance build using the '73-'80 rods because of all the work those need to be able to handle extra power, install ARP rod bolts, resize, polish the beams and shot peen to be able to maybe handle 600 HP as long as you don't spin them more than 6,000 RPM plus they're about 100 grams more than the take out rods. While the eBay nascar rods are built to spin at a sustained 10,000 RPM, installing them in a street/strip or even strictly strip would be like the rods are retired out to pasture only having to spin 7,000 RPM once and a while for 12 or less seconds cruising on the street they would be under 3,000 depending on trans, rear gear and tire size. Like I said, just because it hasn't been done by many doesn't mean it can't be done by many more. :TU: Derek
I gotcha....My problem (if that's what you really can call it) is I have a good friend that spent thousands of dollars building a 464 Buick motor,then sold everything to get into the new Challenger thing. He had much money in this motor but knew I would be interested in it for a hefty lump of $1000. There's no way I could say no. That and the fact I bought out another guys 462 Rivvy and got in the 11's with my old 72 GS.I can't afford to go to 350. I just traded my 73 GS 350 4 speed car for a GSX project and that's where my cash flow is going. I have 4-5 350 motors and many pieces from the 350's and I really would like to see some 350 guy just come make me a good offer and haul them away to be used. I will never use them most likely..I would trade for GSX things or 455 parts or even a short shaft TH400. I have a 71,70 and can't remember the other 350's year.
pat, watch out for those flathead fords on alky. they will kick your butt all over town and think nothing of it. AND thats 40-50's technology. :eek2:
I do not understand the stroking thing why would you want to make it a diesel? The 350 is already stroked why give it more. I have been spinning mine to 61-6200 for 20 years now even hit 6400 every now and again. Balance it good and it will spin. Right now the 350 likes a power adder to go 11's, it really likes the nitrous. Sometimes you just have to use some imagination and some JB-Weld to make it happen:laugh:
