525 CI shortblock pics

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Jim Weise, Jun 23, 2003.

  1. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Putting one together today, though I might post a few of the many pics we always take during an engine build, for your viewing pleasure..

    Even to a guy like me, who has boxes and boxes of SRP pistons and TA/Crower Sportsman and Billet rods on the shelf, this is some different stuff..

    Moldex Billet crank 4.400 stroke

    GRP aluminum Rods 6.995 length

    1.400 compression distance JE pistons

    And a block girdled block, with all kinds of clearance notches ground in it.. boy, there is some fun for ya'....

    JW
     

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  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Notice the girdle is not on there... because it's an older version, which required a whole bunch of "clearancing".

    I hope we are done with that proceedure, I will know shortly, as the final mockup is under way now.
     

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  3. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Rods, after final size measurment, before coating the bearings.
     

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  4. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Now there is a short piston for 'ya..

    525 JE sitting next to a 464 SRP
     

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  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    and the block saving aluminum rods...
     

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  6. 11SecondGS

    11SecondGS ROCK THIS

    sweet

    very cool:bglasses:
     
  7. Nitro71455

    Nitro71455 Procharged 455 boost baby

    That is very NICE Jim. Just curious as to why the alum rods are block savers? Also, don't alum rods have the tendancy to strech more than steel rods?
     
  8. oPh

    oPh Well-Known Member

    Hard to beat a set of GRP's :grin:

    Jim, Do you have a gramweight on the 6.995's? 2.1" rod journal?
    THX!

    Roger
     
  9. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Rich..

    Yes, Aluminum rods certainly do have a service life. But the lighter the reciprocating assembly, the less stress you put into the cylinder block, at a given rpm. The engine also revs faster.

    I might not put aluminum rods in a street motor, but in a motor like this one, it will take several years before the rods need to be replaced. We will mesure deck height very accurately, during assembly here, and then check it ever 200 passes or so. As soon as the deck heights start to change, it's time for new rods.

    Roger.. Static weight of the 6.995 GRP rod is 643g -- a TA/Crower forged rod at 6.600 length is 780g, and a billet at that length is 787g. This is a 2.200 BBC rod journal size, that uses doweled rod bearings (at $10 a pop..)

    Pistons, less pin, are a mere 530 G -- even the lightest 464 piston is 640ish..

    JW
     
  10. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    So, I you can tell me none of your business, what does a short block like this cost?
     
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Crank -- 2895.00

    Rods- $950

    Pistons- $800

    Block work is typically around a G on any 455.. maybe a bit more.

    This crank is internally balanced.. lots of holes drilled in it.. read that labor time.. so it's a spendy balance job.

    By the time all is said and done, it's assembled, has all the rest of the goodies in and with it.. with a roller cam/lifters..

    An easy 10K+

    Put the $4 k heads on it, and all the rest of the goodies, it's how a motor like this goes for 15-18K. Depending on if you build it, or somebody else does.

    Now, a new block would be awesome.. but add at least $2-3 k to that figure, once the cost differences are figured..

    JW
     
  12. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    and for that money you get this...

    Saying this is a "nice piece" is like saying the empire state building is "kinda tall"

    wow...

    All 90 lbs of it... but that's ok.. rotating weight.. no where near as deadly as reciprocating weight..

    And.. after a balance job, off to the crank shop to straighten and polish it.. it rotates better in the block, with clearances just a tenth or two on either side of .003, than I have seen any Buick crank spin..
     

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  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    The spin test was excellent..
     

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  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    a mere 28 inch pounds to turn the crank (all 90 lbs of it) with just a little 30wt on the bearings, and everything all torqued up. This is without the bearing coating.. it will get better, but so far, it's the best I have ever seen a crank spin in a BBB.. 35 inch pounds is not at all uncommon, for something with a little bigger clearances, and everything nice and straight. Tighter clearance street motors typically come in at 38-42 inch pounds..

    Anything more than 50 in/lbs, and we start looking for issues. And they can never spin "notchy".. or "bindy".

    Big factor in making HP here.. crank must spin freely. If it spins this nice now, once all the bearings get worn in, it will spin real easily.
     

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  15. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP

    Dang...

    I knew that mark was on the girdle for a reason...

    Welll.. I guess this is test fit number 3, not the final..

    A couple of days went by from the time I dropped in the crank, and a pair of rods and pistons, for the initial clearance setup, and marking of the block and girdle.

    I looked at that mark, near the pan stud last night.. and thought.. nah.. number 8 will clear..

    I think I was just tired of grinding.. and talked myself into it.

    :Dou:

    JW
     

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  16. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    OK, so I've seen your charts and what $10-12k will get you horsepower-wise, what kind of hp numbers will this $18k engine make? Is this an 8000 rpm engine?

    I'm not looking to nail anyone down, just a rough guess.
     
  17. SmittyDawg

    SmittyDawg Need another garage....

    Kinda stinks that they only give you one piston with that crank and rods!:laugh:
     
  18. TXGS

    TXGS Paint by numbers 70 GS 455 4spd

    The cool thing is that one piston makes that much hp. buicks are cool!:Brow:
     
  19. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise 1000+HP


    Depends on how it is equipt..

    The one in the picture is very similar to Doug Hecker's setup, which comes in at around 825 HP, if I recall correctly.

    That's naturally aspirated, single 4 cast intake manifold.

    For 18K, you can get into the dual dommie tunnel rams, and with all the goodies and the right setup, you can go naturally aspirated well into the 900 HP range.

    Blowers, Turbo's N20.. and then lots more, but those motors are more expensive yet..

    Let's not forget, those screaming V-6's typcially are 30-40K a piece.

    JW
     
  20. Bobb Makley

    Bobb Makley Well-Known Member

    Jim

    Is that 28 pounds with no rods and pistons? It threw me off when I saw the picture in the background with no rods and pistons. I agree the easier it turns over the power it will make. The GSE motor I put in my car this year with rods pistons and seal took 24 pounds to rotate that is the easiest I have ever had one turn over. The rings were the big thing I used a light pressure set since I was going to run a vacuum pump. Bruce Kent was really pushing me to go that route but I was a little nervous about engine smoke but after it all sealed up it was cool :bglasses: .

    We sent one of our cranks to a place out near you I think and they took 14 pounds out of it. It is still a pig but much better than it was. They did a beautiful job with it I must say. I will ask Geof were it was done and let you know for the future. Price was not bad either.
     

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