Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by Lightningbird, Dec 8, 2009.
I sure do love my X-Factor intake! :laugh::beers2::bla:
It's not just the intake, but eh cheap roller conversion as well. The X Factor is great as the "Kid" said, but is not run of the mill for everyone else. I would like to have an option between dual plane (almost stock) and a full on sheet metal racing intake. That's all. I thought a couple of hundred dollars and I can make any SBC intake fit would be awesome. Yeah....why don't I want a X-Factor.....I can think of 1200 reasons, but I never said I don't want one, I just don't need one.
There has to be a cheaper more cost effective way. I saw the SBC tunnel ram SBB at the nats when a kid in 1994. It had home made "wooden" spacers to adapt the intake to the head. I sure did think that was trick. Oh and it went like stink. It has to be more cost effective than a individually built X-Factor. It just makes sense for mass production.
Think how many hours it must take Mark to make an X-Factor.........How many adapters could be made in say....and hour. The intakes already exist. That relates to dollars saved. A set of adapters may only cost $ 200-300 and a SBC intake. You just saved $700 a hell of alot of Marks time and you are 15hp off the run of an X-Factor. What seems to be the issue?
have at it. put up pictures when your done.
I do not think a sheet metal intake is the solution for a street motor. I think most people would be better off with a cast intake that is more tame.
Ok, well when you come out with your "performance" intake then you can show us how it is better than our current options. The TA intake lays over at 5600 rpms, I know I want 6500-7000 rpm power in my street car so the sheetmetal intake is perfect for me.
Keep in mind Mark can build these intakes in any variety from low rise to dual 4bb tunnel ram. Mark loves new projects!
Why I choose a sheet metal intake over an adapter with a SBC intake:
Doesn't require any more gaskets. More gaskets = more replacement:af:
Every single, little, thing bolts up to my intake just like stock, hell even better than stock!
Looks better than any high rise 4 bbl SBC intake hands down.
I have put tons of miles on this engine with both the cast and sheet metal intake, and there is improvement across my entire RPM band. The car even idles better! Now I know people criticize me and say that I don't have solid written proof of my improvements, and they would be right, but how are you going to prove me wrong. So all these comments from people who have never run a sheet metal intake on a SBB, about how they are not practical on street engines, are slightly unfounded IMO.
Back to the SBC intake, I think its a great idea you guys are trying this, and I wish you success. Sounds like a tremendous amount of work.
I am not knocking the intake, I was just saying that for most aplications I think a less radical intake would work better. I think they are really neat and for a race deal they would be great. But I think a car does mostly street driving and gets raced from time to time would have more low end blast with a less agressive intake. I wish my TA made power up that high, It really kills my top end. I am going to make a TA/Mopar intake.
Post pics of any intakes you make! That's like porn around here.:beers2:
Fellas....what you jumpin' on each other for??? You guys are arguing about personal preference, and no one will win that argument but yourself. Plus you guys are killin' the whole point of the post.
This whole thing was about making a set of adapters that allow for a cheap roller cam and any type of SBC/SBM intake to be adapted to a SBB since the only single plane intake available is the Burton X-Factor. It does not fit every type of use for the engine, just like the TA does not fit every intended application. Sean wants something that buzzes up to 7K+ RPM. I had wanted to build a 4500 RPM truck engine with EFI.....thats why an adapter works best since anything can be bolted to the thing to fit "MOST" applications.
Wilson manifolds would not exist if off the shelf stuff worked for everyone so quit arguing about it. I don't care how fragile your ego is.....that's not what the intention of the post is about. You all are wanting the same goal and are working toward the same thing. Hit Dr. Phill.com if you want to talk ego. I'm over it.
I'm thinking there is use for two adapters....SBB to SBC Hilborn, SBB to SBM Single/Dual. Oh.....and I'll post pics. So be nice to each other........
Is the rear of a SBC manifold (where the dist would go) simply cut off?
Could someone who has a SBC or Mopar manifold & a SBB, sans intake, laying around set the manifold into the Buick valley in approximately the right position and take & post some pictures. Then we would have a better idea of the obstcales that need to be overcome. Anothe manifold that could be looked at is the AMC, since the engine is similar in design to the SBB.
I have a cast iron SBC intake someone can borrow.
the amc(just looked at one tonite) intake is about the same as the sbc. its narrow and would require a big adapter between the head and intake.
i never took any pics of the sbc when i was trying to adapt it. i know it takes 3-4'' to fit it. the pontiac intake sits in fine. but you have to cut it length and width wise for the ports to line. but you have to build a whole new carb box. the bbb lays in there also, but you have to cut so much to make it work, it becomes useless. the 383 mopar sits to high. have to cut the flanges way down to fit it. dont remember port alignment. the 440 intake is used on the bbb with adapters. that maybe another alternative for the sbb. never had one to try. never tried an olds either. one last item is the t/stat housing...???????
so, take your pick on what you want to use.
backtrack a little.
you possibly could use a pontiac intake for make the base for the sbc. cut and weld, cut and weld.
I think that the most difficult thing to overcome is the cooling system,when making the adapters.The engine needs to stay cool and if planning on selling more than a few of them,one should be able to retain the heater function for the car.AC will be gone for most.
Like Johnny mentioned,the angle of the dangle will dictate how tall and what shape the runner section is.I believe that my manifold ended up 1 3/8" taller than a stock TA manifold,I don't know wether the TA is taller than the factory piece.Had I wanted to set it up drawing a center line from the Mopar runner to the CL of the TA flange it would have ended up about 2.5"-3" taller than the stock TA.I decided to use the floor of each part as my "dangle".
I think it is still a good idea if you can pull it off and Mark is the man to help you do it.I have no problem with using the most R&D'ed manifold in the planet if given a chance.I like Mark's rocker conversion too,nothing wrong with it in my book. If you do go forward with it please consider these two things:
-a provision to pin the adapter to the heads and the manifold(2 places each) and heli-coiled threaded holes for the manifold side.
-take a good look at a sbc,vortec,Edelbrock Victor Jr. single plane(the air gapped one) manifold,had I gone ahead with a single plane I would have used that one.
I don't know about retrofitting roller tappets for the sbb but if it's only a matter of fastening the spider to the block,that should be a good one to pull off also.
I'm glad that more people are getting involved with these engines,they are what they are,it is worth some hot rodding to them just like any other V8 powerplant that hasn't been around for many years.Good luck with the projects.:beer
Wouldn't it be just as easy to use the "lost wax" method of casting and just make a new manifold to fit our needs instead of piecing together things?
It is not a matter of "easy" it is a matter of cost to get this done, and the cost is substantial. This is why those of us who want a good intake either pay to have it built or make it ourselves.
But "lost wax" is somewhat inexpensive and fairly easy to do. With aluminum having a low melting point, it would be much easier to use than bronze, which is the metal typically finished in this method. It's not unlike sandcasting.
Well if you have the means to get it done then go for it you have my support and there is a market for these intakes.
Im not an expert on the roller stuff, or fabrication per se, but speaking from a design point of view, those "spider legs" dont look too strong to me.
What sort of forces will they be seeing? How are they attached to the adapter? How are the secured at the bottom? What material would the be made of?
To me it seems like they will want to deflect at the bottom closer to the lifters.
I have some design experience, but not alot. Maybe Devon can chime in on this.
Neat idea though. I like how youre trying to incorporate a bunch of readily available aftermarket stuff through one design.
The forces are negligible. The factory spider is essentially made of sheet metal. Their only function is to retain the roller lifters roller wheel parallel with the cam lobe. The springs and pushrods hold them in the block. There is really no real tension on the legs as long as .540 lift is not exceeded as in the original turbobuick post the idea was taken from. If a lift exceeding .540 is wanted a specially ground cam with smaller base circle is needed. Then the strain on the dog bones will be eliminated. So to answer your question....plenty strong for the forces needed.