Jim, regarding head studs for 340, are they dry or wet? If wet, might want to consider a good thread sealant like for-sorry,(Chevys). On supercharger, Jerry Magnuson says, "500 hp. with stock Rover heads/ std. displacement". His blower and intercooler. Usually around 9.35CR. and 7.5lbs/boost, pump gas only. He designed the ZR-1 Vette set-up. Very efficient . "Doug Herbert Performance" in N.C., a good source for parts and custom cams. I use his Chino, CA. store. They make the cams right there by Donney Johansen. Very savy cam builder. Good luck, roverman.
Thanks, but I sort of question the 500 hp figure. Was that in a 3.5L Rover? At 7.5 lbs that's only a 50% boost. Perhaps with highly ported heads and a very aggressive cam, running a high redline but it wouldn't be very streetable, the base engine would have to be capable of 330 hp which is a lot to ask from a 215 cu. in. pushrod motor. I think the approx. 300 hp figure I've been using for my 16 psi 8.5 CR intercooled Olds 215 is much more realistic, but of course it was running stock cam and springs. Now if we're talking 350 cu in displacement as in the motor I'm building now certainly it would be feasible, and really depends on the boost level more than anything else at this point. The Camcraft cam I got from Charles is certainly capable of supporting that power level, and although the '64 heads raise a big question mark, more boost could easily put me into that territory. Should I decide to switch to the new TA heads the power levels would go beyond that very easily with very little boost. But this build is not about power, it is about flexibility and economy. The flexibility to exceed the nominal redline by a very significant margin should I want it in a curve, and the economy to use the car as a daily driver. Driving fast in a curve is all about not upsetting the tires, meaning no shifting at the edge of adhesion. Add a few hundred rpm to the redline and you can do that and get away with it, even if power output does not continue to climb. But for economy you need compression, which does not generally play well with boost. Quite a balancing act of course but I think this build will pull it off. So as a general update, the cam is installed, as are the pushrods, but the heads need to come back off to add sealant before torquing down the o-ringed copper .050" head gaskets (.040-.045" squish), at the same time degreeing the crank and cam. Recent developments make it possible for me to get a good TIG welder so work can soon begin on the intake, and I've decided a 1/4" pan spacer extended to the mains will be all that's needed on the bottom end. So provided I have time to work on it the engine should be mostly together by next week except the intake and pan. I still need to build a transmission for the car and there's other work to be done as well but it still looks like a possibility of driving it by summer's end. Jim
Jim, regarding 500 hp. 4.L-4.6L with orig. ,un-ported, std. valves. I'm taking an, intercooled ,wait-and-see, veiw of this. I hope he's right. He's a genuine savy guy at what he does. I'm getting one his set-ups and we'll see. I've also put a 6V-71 roots type on a Rover. Used a mounting casting from Bill Dyer's Blowers, welded onto Offy intake man.Came out real clean and simple. Superchargers USA. prepped the blower for Alky/E85. Said it'll make 20psi. manifold no problemo. I'm considering what kind of, "in your face", ride to put it in. I have 4 little,61/62, 2 F85's, 2 JetFires. Nostalgia Pro Sreet? Good Luck with your "Li'l Mountin Motor". Art.
roverman Are you aware of this: http://blowerdriveservice.com/cart/ymm.php?cat=9_64 First manifold listed.
I ran Jerry's M-90 on the 215 Olds, got the first Gen-IV unit to go out to a private shop and it performed very well, using the 2.8" top pulley and 6.5" damper pulley as I recall. It would peg my 16 psi boost gage. For the 340(350cid) I'm using the M-112 off a ford Lightning truck. It has an oval top inlet which is much easier to work with than the rear inlet. Was very satisfied with his two piece custom length drive, no problems with the unit whatsoever. Very high quality. Jerry's a good guy. When I had trouble with his guys stonewalling me on shipping the blower I cantacted him and had it within a week. Jim
Thanks for tip on BDS, but I believe this is a better set-up. Dyer's manifold top is only $175. and the 6V-71 is the perfect length. The 4-71 is approx. 50% less volume. The "Offy" is real, straight forward to mod. and easy to enlarge runners. I think this set-up will help determine what a reworked 4.6 crank will really take. "283 the hard-way". roverman.
I used the Offy intake as the base for my 215. Milled out the top, removed all the plenum dividers and runner dividers, welded on a flange cut from 5/8" plate and welded in injector bungs in the Rover position and orientation. It has a right big plenum once it's opened up so the only real concern there is flow equalization. Worked right well with the intercooler stuffed into the plenum. Jim
Magnuson intercooler? Since I'll be running this blower, "wet",on E-85, I should be getting some crude intercooling. Initial plan is to run a "Projection III", throttle body set-up on top of the mix-master. I don't know about E-85 motors, but Methanol runners tend to cool more as power levels come up.I'm betting their 7/1 air/fuel ratio helps. "Feel the Pressure". roverman.
Not Magnuson Art, it was a prototype experimental design using heat-pipe technology. Worked well but looked a little unconventional. I haven't decided if I'll go that route on this one or not. Anyway, made a little more progress, here's a shot of the new lifter valley pan. $30 cut square and bent to fit. I trimmed it. Fits like a glove. Next I need some gaskets for port matching. Jim
Jim, Valley pan looks good. How will it seal to the Int. gaskets? Looking for a intercooler that will stand approx. 300 psi., internal. Also looking for, external, single stage oil pump that happens to be reasonably priced. Moroso is $640,way too much! Want to make the Rover a "side oiler" Ideas? Art.
300 psi? Why so much pressure? I can't imagine the application, unless you are planning on running direct injection but then it wouldn't be an intercooler would it? I did see an Australian design that pumped compressed air into the engine but nothing like that. Anyway, I may very we do away with intake gaskets entirely. With a close enough fit I can just use a smear of sealant instead and get a more reliable seal. Something I picked up working on motorcycles. If you bought that gear drive and sump/girdle you'd be halfway there (and maybe broke!) but you'd still need the pump. An oil pump is nothing but a light duty hydraulic pump. Get the right displacement, a pressure relief, mount and belt drive and you're there. Chances are a power steering pump would do a great job. Jim
This is a copy of my post on BritishV8 so if you read that there's nothing new here. Just an update on the blower intake: I've been working out the details. 19" of 2-1/4 square stock will make the side pieces, drill and cut the ports and then saw it on the diagonal using my table saw. 2 x 1-1/2 x .125 tube for the runners, send them all the way across to join the sides, angling them so they all fit in and cutting the tops off about an inch past center. this gives good port separation except on 2 and 1 so angle 2 farther towards 3 and possibly flare the opening on 1 a bit. Even with that the flow through the center of the intercooler will be somewhat greater than at the edges so I'm thinking of placing a diffuser plate below the blower. Made of perforated stainless and with a gap at the ends and a smaller gap at the sides, this should even out the flow over the area of the intercooler core with a bias towards the ends, hopefully just the right amount to offset reduced flow along the end walls. Getting front/rear balance even is a bit trickier. The blower discharges towards the front. The diffuser plate can be slanted down to the rear to shift flow in that general direction, or a better solution may be to angle the core (which leads back to the heat-pipe design) but there's still the bypass to deal with, which unlike in the M90 fires straight down and not into the discharge port. This means that for unboosted operation this port needs to have it's flow directed towards the front of the plenum. Side walls of the plenum will be 3/16" aluminum with roughly a 5" rise above the runners to the blower flange. A little taller than the old design. A mating plate there will match the blower discharge port and allow removal of the core. The core will be roughly 8 x 10 x 1-1/2" with better than twice the area and volume as the old design. The mating plate will have a deflector attached to the bottom for the bypass. That's the design as it stands now. There will be some refinements as it progresses, such as revisiting the heat pipe theory and design, location of the sneeze valve, thermostat, injectors and regulator but the basic design work is done, supplies are ready to be ordered, etc. Material costs will be $150+ not including the intercooler core. A new 9" nose for the blower will be required, and probably a support plate, as well as a new look at the accessory drive. I'm shooting for boost in the 6-8 psi range on a 10.6:1 CR and based on my earlier work I believe that can be done without melting down the engine. The key to success is that the car is simply too light to allow continued heavy boost for more than a few seconds at a time. That amount of boost will make enough heat to allow the intercooler to help out so that will definitely be a part of the design. More later. Jim
Jim, as I see it, a cast alum. girdle is a waste of $ and metal. I plan to make at least (2) from 7075-T6 billet, nearly equals the tensile of mild steel and 1/3 the weight. I'm going dynamic, cam timing belt, route. I like the Gerotor design and cost of Mopar pumps, it's just I seem to be fixated on Alum.,Carbon fiber and Ti? I'm told on the Magnuson/Norstar motor, they mounted the blower up-sidedown in the valley.Intercooler up and lower hood line. Made the port lay-out easier."Too much power is only shunned by those who don't have it". Good Work, Art.
I was promoting that upside down layout ten years ago. You use a rear inlet blower (or front inlet now), go up through the intercooler into wrap-over runners and get a straight down shot to the valves with the fuel added on the down-leg and the whole thing fits under the hood. But personally, I never *wanted* mine to fit under the hood. Not in keeping with the style of the rest of the car. Jim
Today I split the large square bar stock (2-1/2") and cut it down to near size. I did this on my table saw. With a good sharp carbide tipped blade and slow steady feed this works quite well and is often a better way to cut rough stock sizes than other available methods. It throws hot chips though and you want to be very careful to avoid kick back and not crowd the blade. The ports will run horizontally through the triangles and I'll probably have Steidle Fabricating cut them on the water jet machine. I have stock for the runners and the blower mounting flange but I may have gone 1/4" tall on those, measuring on the angle instead of on the vertical, depending on the way I run the ports. If so I'll need shorter tube stock. I would also like to leave a gap below the runners, but we'll see. Jim
Yep, thats "thinkin".Venturi coldjet air works for cooling. I also use vari-pitch band saw blades up to 1500 fpm., works well also. Neat thing bout table saw is it has no "throat". Ok,on your motor, just so I'm up to speed, "Lightning" blower on "worked" 300, alum. heads on 340" sbb? Fuel? Good luck, Art.
Pretty much correct Art. 10.6 CR, boost in the 6-8 psi range with an intercooler. We'll see what fuel it has to have but I'm figuring pump premium will be OK, maybe 94 octane. The new -5 Cloyes timing set came in and fits perfectly, and I've done the rough out of the ports in the valley cover. A little more work there and I'll be ready to begin on the ports in the triangle blocks. Used a drill press and a jig saw for the rough out and that worked out really well. Once I have layout dye on the bottom around the ports I'll use a hook scriber to mark the plate to match the heads and cut the ports to those lines with a die grinder, then start on the blocks. It doesn't make sense to try cutting those with the jig saw so I'll have to give some thought to how I want to do that. The default is to have Ken cut the ports on his waterjet machine though and that is probably the best solution. Jim
Jim, good to see your progress. On a slight lateral, has anyone "flowed" a TA, V6 head, out-of-the-box, on a 3.7" bore? If so, I'd like to see the spec's. I'm thinkin bout' the Huffaker GT1 for the "Maxton Mile". Maybe I could use my,"Lenco", 2 speed at 38% O.D.=2.826/1 final drive. I like to hear the total aero drag for these cars? I figure well over 500 hp. to go 200 mph. Serious Rover motor required! Your fellow motorhead, roverman.
To all sbb people, I've been hearin a lot of waa-waa over "no intake manifolds", for 350's, right? No "business folks" want spend whats required to make it happen. Fair assesment ? Perhaps a little, "do it yourself ",is in order? I hope Mr. Blackwood will weigh-in on this? I believe once a design or process is described it may become "public domain"? Percieve visually, if you will, a "bottomless" intake manifold casting. You build your, "pattern" yourself, allowing minimum of .013" shrinkage, per inch in all directions. This is pretty "easy", allow for 2deg. positive "draft", to remove pattern from sand. Obviously, this a mega-simple, single plane with 3-sided runners. You "easy" port-match to heads allowing slightly for clean-up cut on gasket surfaces after you welded on "bottom", sheet metal or cast. Good Luck, roverman.
Who is whining??? I have my single plane intake, so does everyone else who wants one badly enough to have one built by Burton Machine....
