hi i need to get some more power out of my weak 231. it is in a 84 G body. i heard that a 4bbl intake and a 4bbl carb would help but where can i find a used one and which car should i look for as the donor? also would adding dual exhaust with 2 40 series flowmasters 2 1/4" help any? i don't have much money to spend and i definetly do not want to rebuild the motor. i would change the cam but i have no idea how to do that. thanks in advance Omar
231 power-up Hello Omar; The production 231 is a neat street engine which you can 1 horsepower per cubic inch without a lot of work. A cam change is needed because other than the turbo engine, the V-6 was designed for economy vs. power. You can find cast iron 4-barrel intakes on ebay. These came mostly on 252 cubic inch motors made in the 1980s in station wagons and a few of the larger cars. From first-hand experience, I'll tell you that you have a lot less hassle by buying an aftermarket aluminum intake from Wiend, Holley or Edelbrock. For street purposes stick with either the 390cfm Holley or 400 Edelbrock/Carter AFB. Add a high flow air filter, like a K&N and you'll feel the improvements. Wiend makes a universal shorty header that works well with their intake. They will provide you with the dimensions to check the fit into your car beforehand. You can swap out the distributor cap for a 250 Chevy with evenly-spaced terminals and add a low-dollar hi-voltage kit. Aftermarket pullies are available, which will free up a few more horsepower. A smaller torque converter will let the engine rev a bit more, but you'll have to drop the transmission to do the job of course. Kenne-Bell makes a low buck windage tray which is good for another few hp. Other than that, I think you'll have to get into the engine to do minor head work and valve and head changes. Mark
thanks fo the info. actually i am putting in a low milage 231 this week. so the engine will be out of the car and the trany detached. you said the best thing is to change the cam but ow hard is it to do that. i plan to do all the work myself. i do know my way around an engine but i have never done that before. thanks Omar
hey, i have the carb( feedback type ) and intake all in good condition, the carb is 75.2 miles old, and heads are good. 84 regal
231 build up We all know how you feel. Gettin' into the nitty gritty of an engine for the first time is scary. For my own experience, the strongest recommendation I can make is to take your time, be patient, have all the right parts and tools on hand, and don't be afraid to yell for help. If you get pissed off at any point in the process...STOP... put the tools down and figure out the problem. If you can get ahold of a digital camera or even a Polaroid, take a couple of pictures before hand, just in case you forget to where something goes. Unless you're building a serious race engine, installing a new cam and lifters involves little more than removing and installing nuts, bolts and gaskets. Reinstalling the distributor in the correct location is the most difficult part. Take your time and you'll be very pleased with the work you've done. And, you'll have paid the entry fee to hardcore geardom. I believe you have two advantages when working on the 231 V6 engines. Unlike our beloved 300 V8, parts are plentiful either new or used. Also, the iron V6 intake and heads weigh a lot less than the iron V8 parts. It's much easier to jockey pieces around, particularly if you're working alone. Before you start, pick up a copy of the Chilton's or a Motors manual for your car. It will give you precise step-by-step instructions on cam and valve gear removal, inspection and reassembly. Be absolutely certain to get the type of cam assembly lube specified by the cam manufacturer. In most cases, they can sell it to you with the cam. Also, because Buicks have the external oil pump, be certain to follow the engine start-up and break-in instructions also. With all the right stuff on hand and taking your time, you can change a cam and lifters in a couple of hours. If you get a chance, pick up a copy of the V6 Performance book. It's got a ton of valuable info including good guidelines on cam selection. Good luck.
hey 84 regal, which carb, intake, and heads exactly do you have and do you have any pics and what are you asking for them?
Mark, Thanks for all the great info. i think you talked me into changing the cam. tell me what you think about a PAW cam which has the same specs as the one edelbrock offers in there performance package. i also want to change the intake and the carb but i don't want to spend almost $400 for the new edelbrock stuff for that. i'll see what i can find or if anyone else has some of those parts. one more thing, you said i should find 250 chevy distributor cap and a low dollar hi-voltage kit. which cars had this so i can get them from the parts store and whcih hi-voltage kit are you refering to? oh yeah i started reading chilton's on the cam removal. do i need to replace the cam bearings or should i use the ones already in there? it also says that if i change the cam bearings i should use a tool OTC 817. do you know where i can get this tool or if a better tool is available. wow i can't wait to get this all done and see the improvements. again thanks for all your help and i look forward to your response. Omar
Mark, one more question, i know there is always "one more question" if i change the cam, intake and carb, can the motor survive without doing any head work. i don't plan to remove the heads. they have about 70k miles on them. thanks
231 build-up Omar, You're welcome. I don't have a PAW catalog, but if the specs are the same as the Edelbrock Performer cam, you should be OK. Something to keep in mind, however. 1980 and later V6 engines have valve guides that were designed for cams with less than .420" valve lift. Be sure to check with the vendor to determine if the seats need to be cut down. In most cases, a cutter is available from the cam manufacturer. But, it means a trip to the machine shop unless you have a really heavy duty drill press. Again, unless you're building a serious race engine, the V6 doesn't need a big cam. The distributor cap and rotor that I used came from a 1977-78 Chevrolet 250 straight six. It has an external coil, not one of the built-in coils. I used an MSD-6A kit on my V6, but you can just use a high-energy coil without the amplifier to save a few bucks. I went with the MSD unit because of the extent of modifications I made to my engine. Good question about the cam bearings. Traditional wisdom would advise replacing the bearings while you have the engine out of the car and the cam out of the engine. But, unless you've done this job before, it means another trip to the machine shop. You could take the block to the shop and have them mike the cam and bearings for acceptable tolerance, which may be the ounce of prevention that you need to have peace of mind. The bearings are a critical part of a V6 buildup. Because the V6 was mass-produced in huge numbers, the quality control was not optimized...meaning that the V6 is prone to internal oil leaks. Installing the bearings in the precise location is essential to the longevity of these engines. So, unless you see lots of wear or scuffing on the cam or bearing surfaces, you have the choice of keeping the stock bearings or not. I can't say for certain without seeing the cam and bearings first-hand. Other than the Turbo pieces, the 1980 and later 231 heads are the best stock units for the V6. Replace any burnt or chipped valves. This is a task you can do at home. With a mild street cam, you shouldn't have to do much to the heads. I'd recommend picking up a copy of Pat Ganahl's V6 Performance. He provides a lot of guidance about what gives the most bang for the buck for a street V6 Buick. Hope this helps. Should you decide to change the intake, definitely check out the Wiend street manifold. From personal experience, I believe the design to be the best available next to the Kenne-Bell #1 unit. Mark
the carb is holley ....4240 Q-jet feedback type, intake stock, and stock heads. the thing is, i loss all oil pressure 27ft. from my house and i feel that i can build a buick 350 cheaper then that 4.1L v-6, oh if anyone can help me one (buick 350) thanks :grin:
thanks again mark, i know many other people must reading these threads however i do not know why they have not added any input. nevertheless, i thank you, mark, for all your help. this is what i think i might do. let me know what you think. 1. PAW cam @0.050 lift 204-214 advertised INT 270 EXH 280 Gross valve lift INT .448 EXH .472 DEG. Lobe Cen 112 i think that is pretty similar to the edelbrock cam do you that is too much lift for the stock b/c i really don't want to cut them? 2. Wiend intake 3. dual exhaust 2 1/4" ( i am not sure if i should go true duals or just cat back.)? 4. let the machine shop change the cam bearings. 5. MSD 6AL 6. Blaster 2 coil 7. 250 chevy cap and rotor 8. ?carb. i thought about the edelbrock 500cfm manual choke but i still really don't know. what would the diff be between manual and electric choke? 9. what else? thanks
one more ? i cant seem to find a new oil pump just a rebuild kit. should i go ahead and rebuild the ol pump or should i leave it alone. unless you know where i can get a new one if that is even the best idea. thanks again.
JTY, why electric choke as compared to mechanical? What do you think a good used kenne belle intake should cost? also is the kenne belle the "best" intake for my apllication? thanks
Hello Omar, I had typed all of the 231 cams out of PAW into the old desk top dyno (I'm building up my '79 turbo regal)and the best results came from the Crane Power Max cam #CRA-813901. It makes nearly the same HP as the PAW cam, and a lot more torque.
anti-chevy II, thanks for the reply. i knew there were more people out there. i got a question. my car currently has a computer but after the carb, intake , and new cam will i still be able to use the computer or not? If not then what do i do with all the computer stuff on it now? also what kind of numbers did the desktop dyno give you. if you don't also what setup exactly are you using? thanks.
231 Hi Omar, Don't be discouraged about the amount of feedback. Because, this is a V8 Buick community, a lot of the members may not have experimented with the V6 as yet. The new TA Performance V6 program may change that. I just happen to enjoy working on different stuff like smallblock Buicks, slant six MoPars and old flathead Pontiacs and Hudsons. (I think Warren Zevon wrote a song about me.) With a rear end change, a transmission swap, and a heavily modified V6, I had a blast surprising V8 cars at traffic lights. Cruise nights were the best when guys couldn't believe the grunt you can get from a Buick V6. And, since most post Nailhead Buick engines are of the basic design, the V6 can give you a lot of insight into Buick V8 strengths and weaknesses. After all, the old 225 V6 started life as a V8, then had the back two cylinders removed. Truth! Your build plan looks feasible. Definitely rebuild the oil pump. Kits are inexpensive. No need to go crazy with the oil pressure rating. The stock system is OK for a street car. A little extra pressure will reduce the amount of oil pressure that drops off at the back of the block. I' believe the PAW cam is a profile developed by TRW for street performance vehicles. I'll see if I can find my notes about the valve guides, just to be sure. You'll get info with the cam that will tell you for certain. Don't be afraid to call PAW to get tech help. That's part of what you pay for. Unless there's a reason not to, I'd recommend looking into a four-barrel carb that's designed for computer operation. Holley is probably your best bet, but Edelbrock and Rochester may have one also. You don't need a lot of carb for a street V6. 500 cfm is plenty, even with headers. I ran a rejetted and tuned 390 with the Wiend street manifold and had great results. When I changed to the Wiend race manifold and 600 carb, it took many, many weekends to get the stumble out. Sometimes smaller is better. Mark
ou: Opps sorry about that Omar I had my #'s mixed up, stick with the PAW cam its the better peace.Heres some numbers for you. 231 V6 with: Small tube headers mufflied 750 carb 8:1 compression PAW cam # 10303 217 HP @ 5500 RPM 237 FTLBS @ 3500 RPM ( I've got the old desk top dyno so my #'s may be low. There are a few guys on here with the newer DTD like Mike Atwood that might run the numbers for you if you ask them.) Your going to need to run AT LEAST (no less) a 2800 rpm stall converter to get the best results. As for what I'm running. Not much at the moment( I just bought it a couple months ago), Im planing a cam swap, down pipe, 3" single exhaust, 3000 stall converter, 3.90 gears, adjustable wastegate, and an offey competition manifold with a home made adapter so I can bolt the stock turbo/carb plenum up. I think if you get rid of the computer you've just got to get a different carb and distributor (although I could be wrong).
hey how about a Offenhauser intake? what do you think about that as compared to the edelbrock or the wiend? thanks
Omsrex, I rebuilt the V-6 in my '79 Turbo Regal years ago. I was very impressed with the performance (14.1@98mph), but I think that was due to the turbo. Here are a few additional points that haven't been mentioned: The 4.1 liter V-6 used a 4 barrel carb and intake. Intake was aluminum, and carb was computer controlled. For cost and ease of installation, I'd recommend this setup. The carb should work with your present computer. You could probably purchase this setup for under $75 at a junkyard. Get all the carb linkage, too. An aftermarket intake and carb would produce more power, but you'll spend $300, at least. I wouldn't use an Offy manifold, they historicly aren't as well designed as edelbrock or Weiand. Exhaust: A cat-back exhaust for a Grand National is readily available from a number of venders. The way to go if you're on a budget. For lots more $$, dual cats could be had, but I doubt you'll notice the difference. The V6 just doesn't more that much air. Oil pumps: V6 pump housing is built into the front cover. So a kit just includes the gears. Check your cover (oil pump housing) for scoring to see if it's usable. You can measure clearances with feeler gauges. Valve covers: a set for a Grand National would look real nice...check e-bay. Transmission: I put a 3000 stall converter in my Regal and hated it. Seemed every time I hit the gas, the revs would go to 3000. Wasted alot of gas. I had the TH350 trans, tho. Rear: Better gearing would help. Something like a 3.42 would be nice, depending on how much hiway driving you do. Ignition: I used the chevy I-6 cap, MSD 6a and coil also. Also put in an advance curve kit. Avail fro Mr gasket, Moroso, etc. Do one thing at a time. Install the cam, bearings and oil pump gears (if necessary) while the engine is out of the car. Install it, get it running. Drive it. Enjoy it. Do the other mods as time and finances allow. An intake swap is a nice weekend project. So is an exhaust system (if you like rust in your eyes, that is!). And junkyards are a great source of cheap parts! But most of all, have fun!
