GM Wants Another $16.6 Billion http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29243150/ It seems as though they're getting plenty of my money whether or not I buy their cars, so I choose not to give them even more. The taste is too sour for too long and I won't go back. I wonder how much my personal contribution (tax dollars) will be over the years for the privilege of not owning one of their new cars. This is intended as a rant, not a political thread. Ranting aside, I'll always keep an old 65 Buick around :beers2:
Bugz, I am inclined to agree with you. I've got my Buick, Chevy Pickup, and that's about it. Soon the Chevy will fall by the wayside and I'm going to purchase a Nissan Titan. I've had enough of the "BIG THREE" and their mismanagement of everything they do. Why should I support an industry that hikes prices, gives the upper management insane pay and "Golden Parachutes" and steals from their employees 401k and retirement (don't know if they do but I'm sure its a good guess...) :rant: Just another Rant as well, and yes I 'll keep my '63 Wildcat.
I'd rather have the American auto industry get billions ,instead of the greedy bankers,who helped put us in this predicament in the first place. The car car makers have to pay that money back. The bankers don't. No matter. It's all looking to belly up anyways. If I could afford it, I would go buy a new GM right now.
Don't you just love the kick them while they are down mentality. And then they are going to go buy something to benefit the banks in another country. They want to put thousands of Americans out of work to get even with the CEO' s. A bunch of real mental giants. :spank: Bob H.
I'm not a fan of the bail out, for the big "two" (remember Ford says no thanks to the government money), or for anyone else. If the big three were left alone and we let them go bankrupt, the courts would make them go through some kind of restructure. This would probably let them start over on some of the union contracts. (don't want to hear from any poor union guys). When they lay people off, they can be drawing 80 to 90 percent of their regular wage. No company can survive like that, and you know that there are a lot of other shocking contract items that strangle the big three. If they are staffed for the busy times, they pay for nearly the same staff levels when they are in the slow times. As for the buying of new cars, I like my old cars that I can work on. My 07 Dodge truck has a perpetual check engine light due to some hose on the underside of the truck coming loose or some other thing, my 05 Chevy Trailblazer has been a good rig, but it costs too much and I can't do any more than change the oil. If I were to buy a new rig, it would be a Ford. They are making a go of it with out tax money, and I buy American (well, my old Land Rovers too). Buy American, Keep Americans working, they will have money that they pay tax on, they will spend money and pay sales tax in many states, the places where they shop will make money and employ people, and the places that make the stuff will make money and employ poeple. It's all a happy circle if we all do our part.
I recently took a trip to Delaware To look at a Chrysler plant that was closed around Christmas and demolition is in the making very soon.In my travels around Washington D C and Delaware I could not help but notice on highway and in parking lots for every 10 cars going by or in these parking lots I noticed 7 to 8 out of 10 were foreign cars.Also my recent trip to Texas same ratio.In Michigan where I live maybe 2or3 out of 10 are foreign but #s are changing.I have been a big part in the last 21 years of tearing down all these big 3 plants that close. Most hurt is my home town of Flint Mi. where I have tore down incredible plants like Fisher body 1 where the UAW started,V-8 plant,Buick City which employs maybe 5% as much as it did at one time.This plant at one time was truly like a city in itself now only a few buildings are left.Just this last summer A.C. Delco where the A.C.spark plug was 1st. produced.In the mid 70s employed 15,000 now maybe 1,000.Could the big 3-made better corp. decisions as times changed through the decades -YES.I also feel the big have done a petty good job of taking care of retiree medical cost and pension(BIG FINANCAIL RESPONSIBILITY).Considering in China their Gov. help with autom. industry health care.Some say well a lot of these foreign cars are made here in USA Yes but where do profits go --BACK OVER Seas.How many retirees from these plant in USA to date they are responsible for (0).Lets not forget the Billions upon Billions that was pumped into our nation over the decades by the big three that trickled down to all of us.The amount of $:dollar: being asked by auto. indst.(LOAN)to help them with this change should be no problem considering we gave the banks the 1st.$350 billions with no strings to help with bad loans they made to people buying houses they really couldn't afford(my opinion)and suppose to help on car loans???? I would NEVER EVER think about buying a foreign car or let my children buy one.I just hope my 2-grandaughters someday are not forced to buying a Honda,Toyota ect.. bacause thats all thats available and shopping at Wal mart with their great non American products.keep buying all these foreign products and I think all our grand children will be doing wonderful in the future.I have RANT enough:rant: and this just my opinion (I FEEL BETTER NOW):grin:
I'm not in favor of bailouts either. When the going gets tough, bash a union member. (I'm retired) I suppose you think the big 3 are not at fault? Bull puckey ! They rolled over and gave into any and most demands by the union instead of having the huevos to just say no. They were in charge but they rolled over and stuck their head in the sand and probably decided that the American consumer will pay the price of their inattentive folly but love/loved the record profits and bonuses that they have received in the past and have up to the present time. The big 3 and their upper echelon in management are just as much to blame as any union member/official in the American car industry, if not more so. The American dream (capitalism) has been and always will be, "what's mine is mine and what yours is mine", being either the worker, management or politicians. But just reading your post here, know that won't happen (any change in attitude) since it's quite apparent that your mind is already beyond any cleansing and that you'll undoubtedly have your darkened attitude till the end of time. Jim
That's so sad that the Chrysler plant in Newark,Del. has closed. My grandparents used to live right next to it on Park Drive,which used to be a through street that went by the plant,but is a cul-de-sac now. I still have vivid memories of that huge plant from when I was a child. I went by there a couple of months ago checking it out. Lot of unemployed people around there now. Our nation is in a dire situation. I can't believe that this has been allowed to happen again.
Yes they handled their money poorly but most companies did here in the US over the last 20 years. There is money to bail out companies and what better ones than a company like GM that was once the back bone of the US economy. These auto companies employ so many people and many of them are hard workers. Don't give money to those companies that will send the big bucks overseas to their home. Buy American!
Here's another note from a Union Member that you didn't want to hear from. Everytime I see someone quote that you get 75-90% of your pay if you're laid off makes me wonder which part of the "Liberal Media" he or she is listening to. Rush The Dopester perhaps?? Let this "Left Wing Liberal Commie" enlighten you. First they take your regular 40 Hr. weekly pay and deduct the normal taxes and other things like union dues. Then when all of that is taken out they come up with what you normally take home. THEN they tax you again on the reduced amount. So you really only get about 60% of what you took home on a normal 40 Hr week. It sure is funny that the Liberal Media doesn't report that. I wonder if it's because they want the American public think all Union Members are greedy crybaby's. PONCH
Jim Jim... Calm down. If you don't think that the union is part of the problem, and a big part, you are nuts. The union has the power to shut down a mult billion dollar business. The union leaders, not the workers, don't care if the company survives, they just want to be able to suck as much from the company as it dies as they can. I have seen union shops where hard work is looked down on by the long time union workers because it makes every one else look bad. Boeing will probably go under, or move over seas in the end because there is some union strike that shuts down the entire production one or two times a year. One customer who just had a big party / publicity / press gathering while picking up a jet to take back to Australia said that he doesn't think he's going to order any more jets from Boeing because of production delays, you guessed it, caused by union strikes. Some choice that they give the company. Shut down production, make a stand against the union and loose customers like Boeing tries to do, or keep the line going in order to meet productions needs like the big three did, cave in to union organized extortion, and go under later. The unions have their place in the world, but the union doesn't care about the union workers long term jobs because they don't care if they kill the golden goose. So.... That being said, I think it's you that needs to pull your head out, unless that's against union rules for you to do that yourself. Blame the company for giving in to union demands, or watch them loose billions in orders while they are standing up to the union, and then they get to move over seas or die. Any organization that figures your worth by how long you've been there instead of by what you do is wrong.
Thanks for your reply, but I stand by my post through thick and thin. I could be persuaded to lean a little either way, and even be a little nicer, but would not do so to any degree where I might crack. :Brow: There will always be positive poles and negative poles and it's proven that they won't always, if ever, come together. You have some good points in your posts and I won't challenge them again because it just doesn't behoove me to do so. I'm (somewhat) calm as a matter of fact. Let bygones will be bygones, and all that rot, and to each their own. o No: I'll edit my previous post, but since you have decided to quote it in your latest reply, guess it will stand. Enjoy your life & have fun living it. Keep the moss off your north side up there in the mighty Northwest. :Brow: Jim:bglasses:
This whole has been building up for a long time and the tea kettle is just now starting to make some noise. How many steady, decent paying manufacturing jobs have been outsourced overseas over the last 25 or more years? I wouldn't be surprised if its at least many or more as the fed is trying to make by spending huge amounts of money.
Union members complaining about getting 60% of their pay after being laid off and complaining about it? Are you kidding me? What about the millions upon millions of americans who get zip when they get laid off? The fact that is cost twice GM twice as much in labor costs that it costs Toyota to build a similar car that is also built in the US says alot about this entire situation. Unions are destroying the big three much like they have destroyed others before them. Why should an american auto worker have any more rights than any other american worker? It's not like they build a superior product or work harder than anybody else. It was simply the workers taking as much profit as they could out of the companies when they were making good money, and even having it set up to where they still get paid when times did get tough. shame on the unions.
WOW!! I get home with just over 55% of my paycheck after taxes and I'm still working. Oh well, here's what I wish would happen. I love GM and of course Buick but I so wish they would abandon their grandfathered in factories, go to some states where people actually appreciate the opportunity to work instead of looking at it as a right. How many tax breaks do these foreign companies get in the name of bringing jobs to a state? The old timers don't get the same consideration. I say, an overall consumption tax would even the field and get rid of all the business and corporate taxes. I wish government would allow the industry to build that which will sell instead of that which sounds good to hippies who wouldn't buy an American car anyway. I will only buy American. I won't tell people how to spend their money, but I do think less of those that don't support the American companies. Plus, when I see a Honda or Toyota on the side of the road, I never stop to help. BTW, obliterate the unions.
Mrsportwagon brings up another good point, one that I include most of the time in this debate (yep, I'm at this all the time). The government is way too involved in industry. They say that the big 3 were making the wrong cars, not what Americans want. Well, trucks and S.U.V's are what people wanted up till the gas prices went up. They look to what they think people want to buy, but they are looking years into the future and a sudden double the price of gas stint is hard to plan for. When they have to give tax dollars to get their little electic cars built, and then give tax dollars to get them bought, it tells me that there isn't a market for them right now. Bio diesel, it costs more to make than normal diesel, and it and ethanol also help drive up food prices by re directing farming. We pay for these bio fuels with tax, and with higher food prices. Our corporate tax is amoung the highest in the world here, that helps them to make the move with the jobs also. As for the Toyota and Honda on the side of the road, I'm probably going to help them also, that's just me. I may point out that my old American rig runs just great. I remember being at the post office leaning against the hood of my 1969 ford truck talking to someone about their new hybrid car. They told me what they paid, cant remember how huge of a price it was, said that it should last for something like 200,000 miles though!! I told them that was pretty good while I was thinking of how many miles must be on my old ford. Saw them on the road a month or so later with strapping tape holding the headlight in place, nice car huh? Had a co worker tell me how her little honda car got 30 MPG. Told her that was pretty good. My Caddy Deville only got about 28 with it's 300 horse engine!
