HI Guys, It appears my rear main is never going to stop leaking so I'm thinking about pulling the motor over the winter. This motor runs great for a sp code stock motor (thats what i was told even though it has 71 heads on it.) Well I'm thinking if im going to pull the motor I want more horsepower too! So dilemna is stick with my 350 or put my 455 in it. I would atleast like 400 hp that is good on the street. So what would I have to do to meet my goal? Would sending the heads to gessler for a port and stage one valves and swapping in a bigger cam like t/a 290 get me there? Or what would i have todo to get there? and keep in mind I have a m20 4 speed in my car. Thanks Gary
In my opinion your best bet is to perform a compression test and see what you are in for. If your bottom end needs work then upgrade tot he 73-80 rods which are stronger. The 350 can make about 370 HP without head porting using a TA roller cam. Checkout the latest threads in the SBB section here and you will find the info about the procharged Buick 350 that was 420+ HP NA and 630 HP with a blower. Even at low compression it was making good power. They stroked this engine so it would have more torque and HP vs a non stoked 350. It requires offset grinding to get the stroker 370 and $ are required there... In a perfect world where your bottom end was happy, just add a custom TA roller cam, Gessler ported heads, and a ported TA intake would make you plenty happy! Something like 380 HP, and 400 FT of TQ from 3000-4500 would be great on the street!
Ok I think my brother has a compression tester and I will try to do it this weekend. Where do I look to decipher it? did a search and didnt see anything that helped. Does using a t/a roller cam require any other specific parts as well? What grind would get the motor to those number? I was hoping to keep the motor looking more stock so for instance would like to use my orignal manifold and valve covers if possible. It sounds like 400+ on a SBB is tough unless you sink serious cash into her.
I am under the impression that port-matching intakes and heads generally yeilds relatively small gains for the work and expense. Valve jobs and bowl work on the heads (some of the Gessler work Sean mentioned) is where the bang for the buck comes in. In addition to the roller cam, you need roller rockers and likely other incidentals to get the system to work. The intake would likely be fine although a bit overweight, and the valve covers would also probably be fine. Be sure what you will get from the work that a lot of people say "just get..." because it aint cheap and results vary depending on what it is you are after.
Put that 350 money into a 455, and the costs will be close to the same, you will need to upgrade the cooling system, trans and rear to support the torque, no matter which way you go. I vote the 455!:TU:
I now am more in favor of doing 455s, solely for it being seemingly impossible for a 350 to not leak.
If you are getting compression readings of about 150-180 then the engine should be in good shape. Ta has a few grinds that they have done for the 350 roller cams, but they are custom order. There is a cam buttom that goes onto the timing cover for the roller cam. Roller rockers are a good idea, I think you can use them with stock vavlecovers if you double up the gaskets. You could save cash and go with a TA 284 cam, stay with the stock rockers, and spend your cash on the head porting. The HP would be lower, but it would be great for the street if you matched it to a 2500-2800 stall converter. It costs $ to play the HP game, same goes if you go with a 455 and you end up needing to rebuild the engine, do the oiling mods, etc. If you could leave your bottom end alone, upgrade the cam and port the heads then you are really not spending a lot of $ in my opinion. Any rebuild no matter small or bigblock will be in the $4000-$8000 range if you do it right.
Thanks for the information as this is truelly helping me since I haven't torn a motor apart in years and have little knowledge of setups. So if I went with the TA 284 what do you think I would get HP wise? I should be around 300 stock. I'm thinking cam, lifters, pushrods, and head work with new ta springs and ss valves etc plus a few other things like a balancer and gaskets etc would probably be around $3,000. So if I'm at 350 HP does the cost seem reasonable for the gain? btw my 455 is a 74 as well so no oil mods if I remember right. No stall needed since I have a Muncie M20 in the car.
I have this problem as well...rear main won't stop leaking and water pump likes to drip as well...frustrating to say the least!
Thanks...good advice and I agree if I just upgrade this motor and not do a total rebuild then bang for buck is what I only want.
Its under consideration....If I do a 455 I will be looking to keep the HP at 400 to 450. Ive been told that my M20 would not be a problem for the that HP by the rebuilder. Monzaz went through my 8.2 rear last fall and we talked regarding motors. He said it should be fine up to 500 HP anymore he would upgrade it. Cooling would be an area of interest if I did the swap.
It is up to you, we are just giving you the info you need to decide. I would guess you could get about 360-380 HP with head porting and the 284 cam. Keep in mind that to swap in the 455 you would have to swap the frame pads, and that usually requires taking the front suspension apart to get the bolts out from inside the frame. There are a lot of little things that must be changed to make the 455 work and it is a lot more actual work than doing a top end re-fresh on your 350... Any more questions fire away!:TU:
Gary, what rear gears are you running? 3.42? You can radically change the "feel" of your car with steeper gears (if the top-end upgrades alone don't give you the total hp increase you would like)--assuming this is a "for fun" car, and not a daily driver or "commuter". As Sean said, the 455 swap is more involved that "just dropping it in", and if you have the original, numbers-matching engine, it would be cool to keep it there. BTW, that dark Sherwood Green color, with black interior and no vinyl top (with the Buick rallies)is a close second to black-on-black in my book of "best color combos for the '70-'72 body style". Gorgeous car!:TU: --Chris
Thanks...I really like the way my car turned out...From Factory it was Green Green and white vinyl top...OMG I will spare you from the picture the previous owner gave me with that on it lol My car is normally driven locally with a longer occassional highway road trip. She is not my daily driver or commuter. She still sports her orignal 3:23's currently. So I would like a little more HP for fun but still be reliable to drive to woodward or good guys in cbus or a roadtrip for parts to painekillers:TU:
I do actually now that I'm thinking about this, I need to absorb some knowledge...so what is the benefit or difference between going with a hydraulic or hydraulic roller cam? Looking at TA cams...For street 284 vs 290? Difference between them? Is the 290 more of a strip cam? What is the benefit of going with TA roller rockers? Does roller rockers make sense still if you just go with a hydraulic cam? Thinking a must would be to go with the 350 stage 1 springs for the heads but will there be clearance issue if I went with roller rockers? Do i dare ask about degreeing a cam yet or is that more for strip applications?
The 284 and 290 cams are both good. Pick an RPM range that you want the engine to perform well in and go that route. I prefer the TA212 because it has a better low rpm torque than the 284 and 290... For the street the 212 is king, at the track larger cams may be better. 2500-5500 is the power band of the 212 which is great on the street. The stage 1 springs require no mods with stock or roller rockers. The dual coil springs from ta do require mods to the heads. Roller rockers are good to reduce some friction and add some reliability especially when running large cams and high rpms. With a 212 or 284 cam, no need for roller rockers... The best part about the roller cam design is that you can have a race type cam and a street cam in one because the cam is not a compromise the way it was with the regular old cams.
Keep in mind that with the 4 speed transmission you want the low end torque to ease take offs from a stand still.
