TSP Level 2A-R Prototype Specs and testing (Larry's motor)

:gp:

Very Nice

 

Here are some graphs for your consideration.

In all the graphs, here is the legend

Lunati- Blue

TA 413- Green

Ta Roller- Red

Torque



HP




Airflow tells the story.. and as I stated earlier, even the 413 is going away at 5800.. this could be because of my bad rocker geometry, but I have seen this before. I recommend that if your going to run this cam real high, you upgrade your lifters and make sure your rocker geometry is right on.. IN fact this is one of those deals that if I bolted on stock rockers, you would see this graph straighten right out.

The roller is rock solid, and shows no sign of letting up.

As you look at this graph, realize that an engine is a postive displacement air pump.. meaning the faster you spin it, the more air it will ingest.. as long as the valvetrain allows it. You never want to see airflow go backward, or down on this graph.




And one final one.. Ron has been fooling around building new databases with both blow-by and then knock... Our blow by was excellent, one of the best he has seen since he started taking this measurement a few months ago, and it does not change with cams... since it's all about ring seal.

For the knock sensor, what he is really doing to listening to engine noise.. via the use of a GM knock sensor, in the intake manifold. He's just developing a database for comparision between engines, as another tool in diagnois of problems that can arise.

For our motor here, he had it sent on most sensative scale, 164 is the highest reading.

Graphing it's results is interesting. Because the only difference in these three graphs is the camshaft, we can conclude that it's a real life measurment of valvetrain noise, possibly due to harmonics.



JW

 

Kinda depends Clu,

First off, we have to look at how your using your motor, if I recall correctly your going to be doing a lot of autocross type stuff, where you want torque to pull the car up out of the corners. Question is do we have enough, with your gearing, and where the car will be in rpm at that time. Too much might just spin the tires.. Maybe this curve is perfect.. I think that is going to be near impossible to know until you get it up and running.

Another, and possibly larger consideration is that I know this one works, and with just building you a shortblock, I would hate to experiment with this new tech, without being able to test it.

I am looking forward to grinding a roller version of the 290H, with it's tighter lobe center and more duration, that cam with good heads is killer in it's flat tappet version.

JW

 

I'm SURE Laryy has a WOODIE!!!!!!!

 

Suprised it hasn't been said yet, Buick porn! :eek2:

 

This is really a money making opportunity. You can find a lot of aspiring donee's but donors are hard to come by.o No:

 

When's the next episode of "Days of our Motors", or should I say " The Young and the Powerful"? :laugh:

I was told I should check out this thread. Glad I did.

 

Awesome build / write-up guys.....what was the final CR ? (I'm guessing this is a pump gas motor ???) Congratulations again !!!

 

"The TA cam ran a set of Buick Delphi's I had sitting on the shelf, with the rocker geometry way off, due to the fact that I didn't have the shorter pushrods with me."

Not sure I understand. Was the lifter proload off or was it something else that was the issue? How do you know when you have the correct rocker geometry?

 

Awesome !!! I'd be lying if i said I wasn't just a bit jealous of the idle quality and vacuum #'s ...

... ohh yeah, and the HP/Tq #'s too ou:

just piped those vids through my home theater sound system -1400 watts of 7.1 audio set to all channel stereo = Buick Symphony in 8 part harmony :bglasses:

Will Larry get the full recorded video version or is that an accessory upgrade ? Youtube rapes the audio quite a bit in its compression ...

 

Looking @ the data I'm seeing about 30 HP more that the 413. My ? is it really worth the extra roughly $1000 it cost to run that hydraulic roller over a FT cam? Put a TA 290-08H cam with the correct rocker geometry in that motor and it would probably make 15 to 25 more hp which would put the numbers a lot closer. HP vs cost ratio makes me wonder if its worth it? Its cool to say be able "yeah its got a hydraulic roller cam in it" but that comes at a hefty price.

 

Larry,

It's sitting on my desk out at the shop..

I will see if I can get ahold of it tomorrow.

JW

 

Here's a great tech article on rocker geometry.:
http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep10/EP04-2010_20-30.pdf

The goal for 'correct' geometry is to maximize the efficiency.... an incorrect setup will waste motion, and hence, performance. Another goal is to accurately transfer the cam design to the valve. A lot of effort is put into a cam design....if the geometry is off, the valve isn't receiving the correct info.

Lots of great info on the aera.org site..... the mag comes out quarterly, so check back every couple of months.:TU:

Great thread, BTW!!:beers2:

 

Bob,

Difference is $650

30 HP more, with better driveablity

Quieter engine, no more worries about zinc in oil.

No cam break-in worries

Longer life


You can always put a bigger cam in and make more power, that's not the point here.

The point is 600 HP, and 12" of vacuum at 800 rpm. Not many pump gas, naturally aspriated Buicks out there with those credentials.


JW

 

Yes, Larry will get the mini DVD.

And you do need one of these cams Alan.

 

A spec run-down of this motor

• Bore- 4.350
• Stroke- 3.95
• Deck height- 10.550
• Compression ratio- 10.50-1
• Head CC 61
• piston CC 30
• Head gasket .040
• Rod clearance .0027
• Main Clearance (1-4) .0027 (5) .0031
  
• Block- 70 SF, full machining and oil mods, no filler or girdles.
• Crank- Stock Buick, mains at .010, rods offset ground to 2.200, widened to 1.995
• Rods- Eagle H-Beam 6.8" C-C length, .990 pin 2.200 big end
• Pistons- TSP/Diamond 470 Combo- 15*x.300 valve reliefs, conical dish, offset pins
• Rings- Plasma moly conventional gap rings 1/16 compression 3/16 oil
• Balancer- TA Factory reproduction
• Flexplate- SFI
• Timing cover- TA 1531, built by TSP, factory 455 end housing, stock length gears, white STG 1 spring.
• Bearings- Clevite 77 rod/main- TA dual groove coated cam
• Fel Pro gaskets
• SRE Oil pan (will be)- tested with TA 1511A
• Camshaft- TA Hydraulic roller, 234/247/113 with .574/,584 lift at valves
• TA Hyd Roller lifters
• Rollmaster timing chain set .005 undersize
• TA Stage 1 SE Cylinder heads, with TSP Level 3 porting 335/250 at .600
• TA SP-1 Intake Manifold, TSP port match and plenum work
• AMP manifold Splash pan
• 8.675 length 5/16 pushrods, .080 wall 4130
• TA Roller Rockers- 1.6 ratio
• FR-5 NGK spark plugs
• MSD 8.5MM Super Conductor wires
• Dave Ray stock distributor with mag pickup conversion