One thing I've seen over and over in this hobby are very high dollar cars with generic carbs slapped on with zero tuning done besides setting the idle speed. It's no wonder carbs have a bad reputation. I'd guess 80% of carb problems are operator error..
same guys slap a EFi on it and then complain that its not working, as you guys see , exactly the same approach
Idk who made you spend 5K on that .. if so you got ripped off. As you said you want to keep it in your hand, so if you do EFI you have to learn how to work it, same as you had to learn the carb. So i disagree you dont NEED a tuner on hand , if you learn it. ( the tuner had to learn it too ) and "enriching" a tuner constantly ? its the same as if a non experienced Carb guy as k you to build him a carb and tune it... do you do it for free? does a shop do it for free? No . if you go to a business and you looking for a service you pay, very simple. So its bottom line really Preference , and that is good .. i love and hate both options... We all been there
There must not have been enough information out here for the OP to tune the EFI properly. If this thing is supposed to learn your engine and run accordingly there should be no problem with it. But if you have to start trying to figure out what the system is doing and try to tune it then isn't the Plug and Ply go out of the picture at that point? Don't you buy this system so you don't have to figure out how to tune a carb? that would be the reason why I would buy it. If you have to start to figure out the tune and need to now use a laptop to help figure it out yeah it can get very complicated as described by my brother with his Procharged Mustang. He has a new plug and play system but he still has to go into the computer and fine tune the system and it does not look easy to do, lot to figure out and if you do not understand it then you are totally lost.
It is not difficult to learn, it is just so different a mental concept, from carburetors. The greatest thing is the incremental changes that are made using values and settings in a "spreadsheet" style, than tuning with vacuum gauge, adjusting screws, rods, meters, jets, floats, fuel pressure. Things that you use your senses to do. Getting the "big picture" with the digital side and all the parameters that correspond, takes some time. So, some folks simply involve a "tuner". But, some people do not work on their own cars, and are happy to pay to have all that done. Nothing wrong with that. If someone wants to "do it all themselves", they need to know their own limitations, and that is the same for anything. One has to have good basic automotive theory. Then, follow the instructions. The first and the second are the biggest places it goes south. And that is followed by poor troubleshooting. And the final challenge is the low quality control and manufacturing that is inherent in all consumer products. Not much that the end user can do about that. None if this is any different than all other areas of auto mechanical practices. People don't have manuals or proper tech data. No solid foundation of mechanical knowledge, and often make several "guesswork" changes to systems, components and settings. But there are a great number of people with EFI, and it can provide some better performance with deeper understanding and tuning over and above the "plug and play". But an "out of the box" install (properly), can and does work most of the time with good results. And, I was a "purist" in the sense of doing "period correct" modifications. And I drew the line at putting things on cars that were not of the period. Electric fans, electronic ignitions, etc. But, overtime, I realized some of them made sense, the car safer, and better operation and life of the engine. So, I started adopting things, and my experiences have been good for me. Still, I am not an evangelist for these things, and my questions to anyone are "why do you want to make the change, and what problem are your trying to solve?" (Captain Obvious Monkey)
I agree with you. My Fast EZ-EFI is alright except they used garbage Chinese sensors. Luckily, it hasn't left me stranded (knock on wood) but I've replaced every sensor over the seven years that I've had it. It uses GM style sensors so hopefully these Chinese replacement parts are better. You still need to know basics when tuning efi systems. On the Fast system, you don't use a laptop. You set the parameters where you want them and it tunes accordingly. I was having a slight hesitation at 1% throttle so I richened it up several times, which took seconds, and drove it. On the screen, it shows when it's learning. It wasn't showing learning anymore after 15-20 miles so I knew that it reached its limits. It still had a hesitation, so I leaned it out and after a few miles, it was fine. It beats rejetting or adjusting a carburetor. With all of the various sensors, I can monitor what is going on to help diagnose an issue. The guy down the street has a 70 AMX. He was having issues so he had the Motorcraft carburetor rebuilt. It was still running bad, so he had someone else re rebuild tha carburetor. It still ran bad se he installed an Edlebrock carburetor and guess what? It still ran bad. He came over and asked me if I would install fuel injection for him because "everybody" told him that carbs were no good on today's fuel. It turns out that his points were bad and the distributor is worn out. I replaced the points and told him that the distributor has too much play and needs to be replaced, but he says that it runs fine now so he's not going to replace the distributor because he spent too much on carburetors!
I never mentioned the total amount that I invested. However, since you brought up the cost, you tell me what it cost. Holley dominator ECU with all the harnesses, Cam sensor, modify the intake for the injectors, throttlebody all the sensors harnesses to run both Efi and 4l80E transmission. And then the cost of the tune. There is a lot of hidden cost in doing a full conversion of a true sequential EFI set up. Not bashing people who enjoy it. I just prefer the simplicity of having an old muscle car and being able to work on it myself. if I would like to have a car like that, I might as well just go buy a new muscle car.
i get it... makes sense now.. you had a very custom setup since there was nothing matching of the shelves i assume. Custom= $$ + the transmission. i also have to be very honest , a EFI TBI system will NOT make your 70s small/big block a modern engine. And will not make it as reliable as todays engines... the engines have been build differently. So if you aim for the reliability of a modern engine by adding EFI you will improve it, but you will not get the result you looking for. ( then you rather LS swap it with a standalone harness/ECU)
My ownership of a 87 T Type taught me many lessons on the art of tuning. After moving from a chip to a sportsman to a Fast XFI I learned that not just anybody can tune a Buick; in regards to a EFI system as the SFI is unique. I had one fellow who was supposed to be a good tuner tell me the injectors were to small as well as other needs the car had. At the end of the day I was out $500 and the car ran like garbage - he would not give me my money back but said he would tune it again once I made the part changes. I ran across a fellow who knew how to tune the Buick turbo motor. Without any changes in parts and in tune only the car went from running okay to darn near scary. What I am getting at is regardless of "the combination" ,and yes there are tried and true combinations that have stood the ages the Turbo and 350/400/455 have been prowling the streets and drag strips, at the end of the day proper tuning is what is needed. This forum has a HUGE amount of wisdom from contributors that know the proper combination and HOW TO TUNE the motor - I am reverting to the 350/455 now as I own a 350 car and am looking to gleen from you guys how to maximize its power, its the little things that make the difference. A well built motor that is not tuned will not put out the power needed to take these sleds down the 1320 in a respectable fashion. Same said if the suspension is not set up properly it is killing the efficiency of launching. I know enough to ask questions to people like Mark who have experience with the 350 to understand what does and does not work. If there is a thread that brings together tuning secrets on these carbonated cars please direct me. If not perhaps it would be a great thread to bring together performance tuning on the individual motors.
