I watched a holley sponsored video talking about the 2. It seemed to be an attempt to address the issues inherent with the first one. But I noticed in the video that the external regulator looked identical to the first one. So 'everything' didn't get rejuvenated or addressed. Gotta keep the costs down somehow.
I think you would be extremely happy with an edelbrock AVS2 carb. It has annular boosters. And is about the closest you'll get to fuel injection with a carburetor. They are very reliable right out of the box. If tuning is needed you can change metering rods in a few seconds.
Bob I suspect that's a big piece of the issue, but probably not all of it. I recall how much time you put into your install, a lot of guys want to bolt it on and go...like a Sat morning TV show. No surprise that you had good results. However, a lot of this aftermarket stuff is built to hit a price point so compromises are made. They also don't test it with every make and model. I suspect if you have a Chevy 350 or a Ford 302 you will be a bit better off because these things are built for those volume deployments.
A thought here, OEM’s have to build stuff to last at least as long as the warranty. Aftermarket does not, yes there’s a warranty, 30,60,90 days? And the aftermarket is using Chinese parts, same issue we have when replacing OEM parts.
Hit the nail on the head. Marketing people decide it's a bolt on solution and raise peoples expectations. Unless the other requirements are already in place it can be a long slog. Cheers Bob
Have you heard about the carb cheater? https://thecarbcheater.com/ A YouTuber, Luke, came up with it and it’s basically a carb spacer, small computer, O2 sensor and IAC valve to trim air/fuel ratios; it can’t add fuel, only add some air to lean out a rich idle, etc. It gives a good display and data logging tool on a phone app. It has limited ability to fix bad tuning, but it’ll help guide you to a good tune. The good thing, is you can easily turn it off and go to straight carb if there’s a problem with it.
I've seen that listed somewhere else before. I'd call it a tuning aid. I wouldn't run it full time except for maybe the O2 sensor.
That’s the reason the OP and most people installed bolt on fuel injection, he lacked the experience to fine tune his carb. The carb cheater does that for you up to a point and datalogs so you have substantive evidence to ask for help if it’s way off. Luke has been adding extra features to make it more useful and it remembers the target A/F settings so you don’t need to turn it on/off or open your app every time to drive.
My opinion on this matter is simple.. Jump in with both feet, with the Holley EFI HP or Dominator port fuel injection along with distributorless ignition.. there is power to be had with SEFI and fine control of the individual cylinder spark timing. I picked up an easy 15 HP on a 600 HP pump gas motor without really trying hard on the dyno, over the best carb/spacer setup. Spend the 5K+ and enjoy the fruits and benefits of real Sequential fuel injection/distributorless ignition. Or buy a good carb.. hard to beat a properly tuned Q-jet for all around performance on the street. The various tbi units are typically not worth the cost, with one exception.. blow thru applications.. they are much better than a carb. JW
Interesting perspective. I will agree that if you don't have the money to spend you will pay for it in time spent, well before you are satisfied with the tune. Dialing in an efi system, especially from scratch, is a daunting challenge. OTOH, when they work, they just work, and it sure is nice to have an older car that drive like the new ones. Getting to that point is the challenge. Too much of one for many of us if I'm being completely honest though. Jim
I would first try and use the advance with vacuum ran in reverse where it puts timing in at idle and when you step on gas the timing backs off but get the springs loose enough to bring it back in as rpm goes up then just limit it with stop. It would be as close as you could get without all the fancy hardware. This may help more with a more radical cam where you would need the timing backed off for those hard starts. I say this since I use this Garman Mechanic that I can put into the computer plug and monitor the engine. It can tell you timing and air temp engine temp rpm and so on. anyways with the timing on my Corolla the timing will be at 32-38 and as soon as I step on the gas the timing will drop down and come back up to only about 25-28, it won't go back up high unless I am at cruising speed. This does the same thing on my 2013 Ford 150 Timing will go up as high as 45 letting off gas and drop back down to 20-30 on the pedal step, and will settle in at 35 or so. I think it is worth a try and may work even better if you have an adjustable vac advance, you may need this to even try it. I can't try to make this work as I run the MSD dist which has no vac advance. just a thought
I agree, TRUE fuel injection (SFI) isn’t cheap, and the distributorless ignition is the icing on the cake! Buick really blazed new trails with their SFI and DIS in ‘86 and ‘87, they hardly if ever get any credit for the technology.
I don't understand the "hate" on aftermarket EFI systems? If they wouldn't work they wouldn't sell and not every aftermarket manufacturer with "name" would have there system. So that's very simple.. Of course if you look through the internet and look for bad experiences you will ONLY FIND THOOSE. It's the same with carbs.. YET if you look online for a race engine or any reliable engine for your hotrod.... MOST people will talk you out of a BUICK. They have there points, but does that make YOU dump your buick engines? No. Result is you either take the " he said she said BS" or you dig a bit deeper and you find "knowledge" And that's the key word "knowledge" . If you DONT WANT TO GAIN EFI KNOWLEDGE, and expect it to be be perfect when you bolt it on, then don't bother!!. If you get a Qjet from Summit and bolt it on, it will most likly not perform as one from the VENDORS HERE ... so I consider this vendors who know what they doing with a qjet= Tuners. If you set up a Holley system and hand it to a tuner ( who knows what he's doing) you ll have good results!!!. It's a very easy thought process guys
It is great to see this stuff but it should be easier than it sounds. When is this turbo going to make its debut?
Well, I did just that JW. Jumped in spent all the extra money on the holley Dominator and sequential Fuel injection.(since then sold it all) And I would agree the control over tuning efi may win the contest, I was never more frustrated and lost with the hobby that I’ve come to love before I was old enough to drive. efi is a generational/advancement, and unless you are well-versed in computers and enjoy playing on the keyboard, you can do more harm than good. Better have a lot of money and have your Efi Guru on speed dial. I have a Lot of respect for people that are good and enjoy tuning Efi however, I believe there’s a lot of people like me out there, who grew up, tuning carburetors and would much rather read a plug and tune a carburetor/ignition without all the extra sensors and BS, wiring, etc. Trying to hide it and make your engine compartment Look neat is an art in itself. You may be able to squeak out an extra 15 to 25 horsepower, but for least $5000 spent converting to Efi I’d rather put that money in Cylinder head/Intake design or suspension/chassis, and keep the control of maintaining my hobby in my hands, and not enriching someone else. every time you turn around and have somebody guide you or help you with tuning, its $500-$1000 easy.
