The odds are 4 to 1

The other day before the winter tempest hit us, I had the pleasure (!) of starting to pull the front off the engine in the BAD LAD. I took care of the leaking water pump gasket when I first bought it in November of 2013. As always, I never seized everything and it came apart nicely until getting down to the harmonic balancer bolt. HA!

With the late model (1975) fan shroud totally in the way, the job started out by pulling the fan (duh) then having to pull the shroud. There just wasn't enough room to work in there, and I sure didn't feel comfortable leaning over the repaired '72 plastic grill.

AH HA! Done many 455 timing chain jobs so this was no biggy. Down to the crank pulley, I thought the 6 bolts were gonna break off. Rusted in place, but grade 8 bolts so they did come out with a long 3/8 drive ratchet. Even so, a few were starting to roll the crank past the TDC marks on the balancer. Finally down to the 3/4"NF crank bolt (Grade 8, 1-1/8" head) I thought the 1/2 drive ratchet would do the trick. I don't think the bolt has been out since the block left the factory. The next logical step was a 1/2" breaker bar. Wouldnt budge. So I fired up the compressor and put the 1/2" impact on it. The bastard laughed at me! OK... so the big guns come out; I got the 3/4" drive Cleco impact on it, and it merely smirked. I had the crank locked with 2 pullet bolts and a long screw driver so out comes the 3/4" breaker bar. "Is that the best ya can do???" I was thinking along the lines that the crank was gonna break.

Even tho I tried some propane heat on it NADA. Time for the HOWITZER.
As I mentioned before, real mechanics' not only use the gray matter but the Snap-On 4 to 1 torque multiplier. It holds a 3/4 drive socket and is run by a 1/2 ratchet. I locked it up against the floor with a 4 foot long pipe. It takes about 1/4 turn to wind up tight, and by the time it was in the starting gate, the front of the car was beginning to lift up off the floor. That's with a standard 1/2" drive ratchet BTW. Finally it started to turn. Remember the 4:1 turns 1/4 turn with one full turn on the input. I felt like a Nubian building the pyramid. Once loose, it came right out with the 1/2" impact.

Now as I mentioned before, I had the water pump off and the distributor out for mtce. Its a GM HEI unit and I struggled with it before and this time was no different. Last time before going in, I took a big screw driver to turn the oil pump to line up the drive tab. IT TOOK TWO HANDS to get it indexed with the cam gear and drop in. Pulling it out this time was the same thing. The helix on the drive gear tries to turn the pump and that SOB is tight! Something is rotten with that pump. I have another front cover with a good pump (and all holes intact!). Ill be using that one for a rebuild and checking that HEI drive pin on the gear for problems. I'm surprised it didn't break the HEI body trying to turn that pump! It was that tight!

So the phone rings and its the chopper shop telling me the whole transmission off the FLH is toasted inside. All new Andrews gears and shafts needed for a mere $1400.00. Like the proctologist sez: "NEXT". ws









So, any recommendations on a timing set and an oil pump kit? I don't race the car so a stock steel timing set would suffice, but I do like roller chains except for the fuel pump clearance issues... Ideas? Comments?? ws

 

I don't know anything about those new Buick engines


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That bolt gets 180-Lbf-Ft of torque when it's installed. Any thread locker like road salt can drive the breaking force up quite a bit. I usually put a breaker bar in a reasonable location and bump the starter (ignition unplugged).

 

X2 always worked for me.

Johnny

 

That was gonna be the last resort. I was working alone and just didn't want the bar flying around by the radiator without me on it! Just never seen one that tight. Usually a few whacks with a hammer on the ratchet does the trick. I'm just glad the PO didn't have a chocolate bolt in there!

Today I'm gonna get the Snap-On puller on it and hopefully it'll...Sooo, one for the exspurts; is the key at the 12 o'clock position or is it turned to TDC on number 1 cylinder? ws

 

Ill remember that for future reference, but seriously, I was afraid of busting something; it was that tight. Plus the key in the ignition is sooo stiff from being at zero F for a few weeks that a click could turn into much more. I'm a control freak, ya know?

So for curiosity purposes, it the keyway in the crank indexed to the 12:00 o'clock position? IIRC, on a BBC its indexed to TDC on No. 1 cylinder. Not that it matters, but I couldn't see it even with the camera down in the hole!

EDIT: DUHHH, it just dawned on me that the washer is still in the hole; at least it didn't come out with the bolt! I hope its in there!!

Larry Bluezilla and I were chatting a few weeks ago and the deal on the oil pump seems to be that the PO installed a HP/HV kit and didn't set the end clearance correctly. I do get good oil pressure upon a fresh start-up, and it holds a good 30# when hot at idle. Runs about 60#+ when driving. It really almost needs a pair of vise grips on a 18" long screwdriver to turn it. We all know that aint right. The spare cover I have turns with fingertips.

The block is a 1975 model and I cant wait to see if theres a plastic or steel cam gear on it, along with a cam number (I hope). Who knows what the PO did to it; even he probably doesn't know LOL...The guy was a "cortador de carne" or "carneador" which ever you prefer. :shock::shock: So whats the consensus on the chain part ? Roller or flat?

Does this pump look like it has the HP/HV extension plate installed? ws

 

Hey Bill, the picture looks as though it may have both a high volume plate as well as a thrust plate,..... kinda hard to tell from that picture though. Nevertheless if the cover checks out good (gear pocket, pump main drive shaft bore, etc.) then I would get yourself a Melling standard pump and Melling thrust plate. TA Prrformance sells a nice gasket kit with multiple thickness gaskets as well as pump and plate. Let us know what you find causing that excessive force needed to turn that pump.

Larry

 

Thanx Larry... aint seen you around for a bit. Hope alls' well! Yeah, the pump is no different than when the HEI was out a few years ago, like we discussed. Its always fun fixing a PO's faux pas aint it? Is TA the easiest to score that pump kit? Got the damper puller ready for tomorrow and the steering wheel/bowl puller as well as long as my propane tank holds out LOL... Ran out of time getting the gas line run out to the new shop this fall, so I'm still "on the bottle". Haha!!
Once this pump deal is fixed and the AC is now working and no more valve cover leaks (I hope!!) maybe a cruise night in Cream City could happen. ws

 

Bill, I've been kinda busy and getting nothing done. Trying to finish off that '66 Corvette and free up a spot for a '63 Corvette with a Keith Black 572 all aluminum Blown/Alcohol Injected Hemi. I have to wire the car bumper to bumper (one of our specialties) and tune the engine. Anyhow if that balancer/damper is an OEM, which it probably is,..... then it should not be a press fit with maybe a little coaxing. So your hard work should already be done. But then who knows what the PO did when it was installed last.
That Melling pump is #K-20J and the Melling thrust plate #P-20I. Should be available anywhere,.... I Suggested TA since they sell the gasket assortment kit and also to try and keep the funds within the family.

Larry

 

The keyway should be at about 3 o'clock ,then the crank sprocket should line-up with the cam sprocket.The bottom one pointing up,the top one pointing down.Bruno.

 

Thanks guys! Yeah, I'd like to try T/A and the Mylar spacer set looks ideal. They keyway question was just curiosity peeking out... the 454s in my boat are opposite rotation units which means the cranks need to spin opposite, yet the cams need to be RH for the distributors and especially for the oil pumps. The cranks are stock GMs but with one driving a chain and the other gear driven, the one crank has two keyways cut in the snout; one faces #1 TDS and the LH crank faces #2 TDC. Both cams are the same. The firing orders are, of course, 18436572 and 12756348. Took a while to grasp that one. Always something aint it?? ws

 

Larry, the Hemi Vette isn't Mark Woodruff's is it?

 

No,........ but that gets me thinking about how many Hemi powered '63 Corvettes are out there? uzzled:

 

I wonder why (maybe I was sheltered as a kid LOL) why chevy never ran an SOHC top end like a dorf. Did they??? ws

 

[http://www.museumofamericanspeed.co...esign,15348.htmlQUOTE=yachtsmanbill;2647866]I wonder why (maybe I was sheltered as a kid LOL) why chevy never ran an SOHC top end like a dorf. Did they??? ws[/QUOTE]

 

I mustve slept through that class LOL... Gonna do a little research on that one for my plethora of useless trivia I carry with me, haha. Looks pretty neat with that open belt! ws

 

I'm thinking that if the oil pump clearance was so tight that the gears are actually dragging on the end plate you would have sheared the dist. pin or even knife edged the gear, cam or dist, a long time ago. If the thicker gear set and thrust plate that look like they were installed with the supplied gaskets the usual problem is too much clearance. I think what you ran into was just the fact that the oil pump was fully primed into the oiling system. That would make the oil pump very hard to turn with a screwdriver. I've felt that may times. Even a half-inch drill spinning the pump will bog down heavily with cold oil or once it gets the system fully primed and the oil in the system has nowhere to go. When the engine is not rotating(running) the oil out of the pump is all but deadheading.

If it was me and the oil pump is not leaking, you have great idle oil pressure(hot), and there is no knife edging on the cam or distributer gear I wouldn't waste time taking it apart. If there is no wear on the gears then you are treating the engine right by not revving it up when cold and using the correct oil. If there is wear get a standard OP gear set and the shim kit from TA. It looks like you could reuse the thrust plate and just dump the thicker gears. Of course if the cam gear is worn noticeably you could be looking at a new cam.

The key in the crank will line up around 2 o'clock at TDC. If you slip the timing cover back on with a bolt or two and then slide the damper back on the "0" timing line will line up exactly with the "0" mark on the timing cover. You can tell if the outer ring has slipped because the "0" mark in the damper outer ring will not align with the key groove in the damper. I'm not sure on which edge of the key groove it lines up with, leading or following, but you can see the slight offset when eyeing it up. (On the damper if your "0" line is not close to the key grove then the outer ring has slipped but that isn't really your concern. This was just a bit of extra information.)

I'd go with the same chain set you have in there now. A Cloyes or Speed Pro double set can replace a standard timing chain set with no fuss except for the fuel pump clearance. If you decide that you need a billet set, for whatever reason, figure on having the cam degreed in because the billet set numbers bear no resemblance to the numbers on the previously mentioned timing sets.

 

Those are a few interesting points to ponder Mike. I am wondering now about manufacturing the damper; its externally balanced right? So the outer ring is pressed onto the inner flyweight (vulcanized?) and then the keyway is indexed and broached for precise alignment with the marks, and then installed and balanced. Hmmm.

On the pump deal, since it wont be off till later today, I am of the mindset that the end clearance was NOT set with the proper gasket. As a tree branch mechanic (almost a shade tree!), I'm guessing with a screw driver and a 10" adjustable, that its taking 20-30 lbs to turn the pump. I just cant see it being deadheaded, unless something stupid happened like the relief valve was installed backwards or something along those lines. After its off and apart, the truth should be evident with a highly polished thrust pate or a well worn face in the pump pocket in the housing. If that is the case (no pun intended!) I do have a spare. The original would require plunge milling to renew the aluminum face no? Depending on damage, I wouldnt trust lapping. Something is hoakey!

I didn't see any knife edging on the HEI gear but haven't inspected the cam gear yet. I hope I don't hafta re-cam the motor. If that happens its gonna turn into swapping out some 1970 heads and intake to get rid of the smog stuff. Oh what fun.

Quick story... I had a gal pal with a V6 1974 Mustang II that ATE distributors. On a trip between NOLA and Chicago at 0300hrs we were 2 miles south of Grenada Miss. on I-55 and the car stalls. We were broke and the new/rebuilt dist. had about 1000 miles on it. With limited tools onboard, I had to pull it out on a red hot motor and found a sheared drive pin. I happened to have a 1/8" welding rod stub in the box and formed an "S" shaped pin that actually held together for another 10,000 miles. The job was complicated by a case of Mississippi Dysentery from eating junk food on the road, so we both had to do what bears do best in the woods. That's why we were planning that Grenada stop; gas in... liquid out... what a trip...

Its almost all apart now anyways, as I did want to confirm chain drive condition and replace a weeping front seal.It may also possibly need a seal sleeve. I would only run a steel gear (on the street anyways) and the new fuel pump shows no sign of chain rubbing. The car is 43 years old and a driver so I am just trying to be thorough like a good German/Virgo. What a curse! Six hours from right now I should be clear about which direction to go. I am also cursed by the PO's alley mechanic skillset. Nothing surprises me anymore. When re-assembled, Ill run the pump with a drive rod on a drill just to be sure its up to snuff. Thanks for the input!

Are you anywhere near Pleasant Valley or New Oxford, PA.? Bill