Hi - I normally post over in the pure/stock board, but I am a Buick enthusiast none the less. Several times I have thought about going with a 70 stage 1, w/4spd. But that is not the point of this post. I subscribe to Car and Driver, and also try to observe what goes on in the automobile market place. I am curious as to where you Buick die-hards think Buick is heading. For one, all I here about with current Buicks is that they are for OLD people. I here this far more than I ever heard it for Oldsmobile. It is damaging (in more ways then one) when I hear about some old person who ran down a bunch of people, and invariably they will have done it in a Buick. I don't like any of that, but it IS an observation, and reinforces the "Buicks are for old people" view. My wife ordered a 95' Skylark - new. She was 28 at the time. She started to complain that every other Skylark she saw was driven by an old person. HOWEVER - she still liked the car, and chose it over a Grand Am because it seemed like everyone had a Grand Am, and the Skylark really did look different and cool. Later we find out that the average age of Skylark buyers is 52! I am also curious as to why Buick will not build upon what performance heritage they have. So there weren't too many GS455s, GNs, etc. They sure seem to carry a great message - like go fast with class, or something. I just saw an ad for the new LaCrosse, and while I liked the ad the CAR ITSELF needs more ooph! How many transverse mounted V6 cars can one have in a line up? BMW, Mercedes, and LEXUS seem to do o.k. with rear drive. Lexus brings me to another point. If you have a GS400, or a any other Buick for that matter, what is your opinion of the Lexus GS430? What do you feel when you see one? Joy? Anger? If it were me, I'd love to build up a 4-door 72 skylark and make it handle, brake, and go faster than that Lexus. Another car in my latest Car and Driver is a Maserati. What? A Maserati? What does that have to do with Buick? Because they have a performance coupe called the V8 GranSport. Now, admittedly, I do not expect Buick to come out with a 2-door coupe with a 259 C.I. V8 and rear drive making 396 HP, run 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, and cost $98k. But a coupe, with V8 and rear drive running 0-60 in 5.8 for, say $30k-$40k SHOULD be achievable. Right? o No: It just seems to me that other manufacturers borrow more from Buick's heritage than Buick does! I know the GTO is out there, and while the looks aren't great it was all GM could come up with in a pinch. It performs well, but needs either to be more useful (hint - fold down rear seat and a full trunk) or get some better looks. With GM, they love (is that the right word?) to ax cars WITHOUT ANY DECENT REPLACEMENT. :af: I really am curious as to what the opinion is on the future of Buick, and these cars that seem to "borrow" on Buick's heritage. I just hope Lexus does not increase the displacement of the 4.3 liter engine to 4.55 liters! :eek2:
You won't see GM let Buick go the performance route. They have put all their eggs in one basket with Pontiac and they target the younger set with the make. Chevy is their "value" leader. Buick is geared toward the older set while Cadillac remains the marque for the well to do (regardless of age). Let's face it, the Buick will always be known as the car for the elderly. The new Buick buyer leads a mature, stable lifestyle, has cash to spend and enjoys the comfort and options they provide. There are those who will lay the cash for an "Ultra" but that's about as sporty as it's gonna get. Chrome wheels, portholes etc... Nice looking car that I wouldn't mind having myself (I'm 43). However, to lay out $42K+ for one of these rides is not my idea of a bargin. When I tell my wife I like the looks of the new Buicks she even says "those are cars old people drive" It's a stigma that GM is not willing to invest millions upon millions to change. Buick will be the next brand to fall within GM. Saturn won't be far behind.
I'm 43, and am doing my part to help change the image. I'm hoping that GM has begun to work on changing the image of the Buick line just as they have the Cadillac line. I've always driven Buicks, and have had to deal with the comments from others, mainly co-workers. Such as in '93 (at age 32) when I bought a beautiful '90 Riviera. "What Dale, did some rich uncle die and leave you the car?" And this past summer I bought a '92 Park Ave. that only had 31,000 little 'ol lady miles on it. (judging by the lack of sand pitting on the winshield and front bumper chrome, I don't think it ever saw the freeway!) Anyways, I got similar comments about driving an "expensive old fogeys car" Oh, and the pimpmobile comments to which I reply "naw, they all drive Denalis and Escalades these days!" :grin: But yet, as I am in traffic I notice that quite a few of the people driving LeSabres and Park Avenues are in their 40's. There is even a local Buick dealer that has a great radio ad about how all these 20 somethings are coming into the dealership and pretending to be old. Thinking they have to be old to purchase a Buick. The tag line is. "You don't have to be older to drive a Buick, just wiser!" There are times I notice that people will try to avoid being behind me at a light. I think because they assume I am an elderly person who will accelerate at a snails pace. Imagine their surprise when I gracefully pull away from them when the light turns green! I love that part! :Brow: I don't care what anyone thinks about my car of choice! And am proud to carry the Tri-Shield flag!
Now that's funny!!! I drive a lot and I've observed that with little old ladies its about 50/50. Totally unpredictable. Half the time they nail it off the light. Old men however nail it maybe 25% of the time. Old men with hats, well you better get outta that lane cause you ain't goin nowhere fast. There's no need to worry about what GM will do with Buick. GM is a corporation and they'll do whatever it takes to make the most money they can make. They don't care about anything else. If playing up heritage makes money they'll do it. If they can make more money with a 3 wheeled electric car they'll do that. You want to have some pull at Buick?? Order up 500,000 or so cars that might work . Besides, everybody can't be young and old people need cars too BTW I'm 36 and bought my first Buick when I was 17.
The common misnomer here is "Old people drive slow cars." That is completely false statement. Why the heck was buick putting 455 in Electra's when a 350 could do the job? Buick is going to come out with something kick butt. They were late into the muscle car era, and they were late putting out the GN when they had the technology for so long. Just wait and see, Buick is going to sneak up on the rest.....that's always the rule of thumb. They'll resurrect the name Wildcat and every old fogie looking for some speed will throw down $35K to be in line. I could especially see my neighbor back in Beaver Falls lining up.......70 years old, he had to retake his drivers liscense for excessive speeding in his Park Ave Ultra. He said "I just wanted to put that kid in the Mustang in his place!" :moonu:
All I know is they'd better come up with some better names.....Ranier? Rondezvous? LaCrosse? Give me a break! :rant: :spank:
The old names were much better. Wildcat may not be one of the names they resurrect (that might confuse too many youngsters, they'll think its a Pontiac or something) but Special might. Or even Skylark might make it back in the lineup. I'd like to see a 225, but were talking about cars that can get out of their own way. I have alot of confidence in the Buick V6, but I think it would strain a little pushing a 4500 lb car around. Yeah, I said pushing...my 225 would be rear wheel drive.
Hopefull the new ad might be a hint to the future. Remember when Cadillac had the Led Zeplin song, well the new Buick ad has an Aerosmith song. One generation newer than Cadillac's theme!!!!!! From my limited exposure, I gather that the forthcoming Zeta platform will allow them (GM) to do all sorts of things. The Velite, the `07 GTO, the next Gen Camaro are all supposed to be on that platform. In other words, there will be 2 door platforms to choose from. Buick would have to do something like a 4100 Supercharged version making at least 300 HP just to be invited to the game. Dave
For those who remember............ For those of you that maybe to young. Buick became the "odd" division out or for the lack of a better term "the red headed stepchild" several years ago. Buick Motorsports entered the world racing venue,Nascar, Indy,open wheel cart cars,etc..With the developement of the V6, the racing world with the V8s ,mainly Chevrolet,were being "red faced" in public by the overall performance of the Buick engine, thus the complaint to the powers that be at GM Racing.Result, no more Buick Racing. In the early 80's the Park Avenue was rated by consumers as the top of the line model at GM. Because of this, Cadillac Division complained. Buick took another step back and toned down their luxury models. With the 3800 supercharged V6 and the addition of Pontiac Motorsports back into Nascar years ago, Buick had to "de-tune" the Regal GS 3.8-1 , so the Grand Prix with the stronger 3.8-1 could be a much more "youthfull" vehicle to drive and own. The Grand Nationals with the 3.8-7 SFI was a slight of hand after the first few years of the GN's by BMD past the watchful eyes of GM,just a V6 rated at 200hp.When GM finally caught on and said "no more" the 525 GN's were already at ASC for their "X" conversions. This is just a small capsule of BMD performance demise.Now the good side of the story is all the old guys are retired or retiring.All GM divisions have the same line up, just different trim, inside and out.But each will have a performance model, Buick's will be the Velite, a 2 seater convertible with a rated 350+HP V6.Priced between $45,000.00 and $65,000.00. It's not what we all want, but it is at least a start............my 2cents worth of history..
I've said this before, when Buick discontinued the Riviera model, it was just another nail in it's coffin. How GM could eliminate the distinctive design of this icon in favor of the ugly look alike peanut cars startles me. I'd buy a Ford before I bought a Pontiac or a Chevy. :bglasses:
The problem with the Velite will be its price. 35K....maybe. 45-65K ?!?!? they're not gonna sell too many It would have to be a BlackHawk, with Bulldog-sourced 455 for me to plunk down that kind of green. ....and I WOULD get on that line if they offered it.
Or at least a newer Mopar. Ford and Mopar are headed in the right direction, time for GM to wake up and realize what's going on in the world of american performance. I agree, if I was going to lay down a bunch of green(if I had it lol) on a newer buick performance car, the Blackhawk would've been worth every cent.
GM is behind Chrysler and Ford. Their designs are pathetic compared to the others. GM will be reduced to making only SUV/Trucks within 10 years.
Didn't Buick make a Twin turbo car? Or am I just wrong? I could of sworn last year I heard about this car, and I saw it on the Regis/Kelly show. Regis drove the car off the show. But when they did drop the names, that was a nail in the coffin. They should bring back Electra, Wildkat, or they should put a Big block in their. Also isnt 04 or 05 the last of the Lesabers?
If you want to compete in the youth market you must have a competively styled/ performance car with an entry price point near the Ford Mustang. The Ford currently owns this segment of the market. So far GM is conceding this segment despite a weak tip toe back in with the overpriced/understyled GTO. For those not around and driving in 1970 this is not a new issue. Look at the number of GS Buicks sold in 1970 versus other muscle car brands. Even today when I take our X out to shows a group of people will say they have never seen one or heard of one even though Motor Trend and Automotive mags rated it back then as the fastest four seat muscle car tested out of the show room. The closest Buick came to overcoming this overall problem was the GN/GNX which was perhaps the dominate muscle car of its time. Sadly, it too was killed in 1987 before it got the recognition the 3.8 turbo deservred. Even today, aside from issues like bumper standards, the GS or the GN rear wheel platforms would be big sellers over todays GM stying. For those who say "Naw that old look is in the past", I offer as my first exhibit the new Ford retro Mustang which here is selling out within a few hours and the lines are long. Bob Lutz are you out there listening?
This happened frequently with my former 91 Park Avenue Ultra! Young people of my age driving Civics and Golfs avoided being behind me at the lights but changed their minds after the light turned green! I can't blame them, I also avoid being behind Buicks at traffic lights! I'm hoping that GM will realize again that you can sell young people's cars to older people but the opposite is much harder! In the sixties, Buicks were sold to older people mainly because of their price but many young people were able to appreciate these cars and got them used when they were few years old. Today, most young people wouldn't want to be seen in a Buick, This explains their low resale value and the lack of interest of most people. The worst part is that the names that were associated with Buick for years are now gone from the Buick lineup and find their way in offerings from other manufacturers. Count the number of SportWagons and Limiteds seen on other manufacturer's cars. These must be great names! Not great enough for Buick who is phasing out their great names to bring us dull names (and cars) for the geriatric crowd... If things continue that way, even old people will not find themselves old enough to own Buicks. My grand-father used to say that Buicks were for old people, he was driving Hondas... We should all email GM about what kind of Buicks we want. I did it a couple of times but I think I'm alone.
Jim, Don't know if you saw a recent article in Newsweek/Forbes/Money etc, about 2-3 months ago. I reprinted the article for our local newsletter. Buick is on the verge of becoming the next Oldsmobile. I wrote an article on the site below about 6 years ago about Buick coming to an end. Buick is in no-man's land! With the aging baby boom generation going into retirement, no large market segment for Buick to fill. As others have stated, other division are designated as value, performance, etc. From the magazine article, author states if Buick does not get it together by 2008, it will be gone. I think the LaCrosse is their last chance. Riv is gone. Century and Regal were replaced by LaCrosse and we all know, the Velite was a concept and will not be built. So, basically Buick has the Lacrosse, Rainier, Rendevous and Park Ave. I have not see any Rainiers or Rendezvous models in FL. And, FL is one of Buick's biggest markets. Does not appear to me all is going well! I would not be surprised if Buick disappeared in 3 years. I would expect an early annoucement from GM in a year just like they did for Olds. To me, last great Buick was 87 GN/GNX.
I don't doubt at all that Buick is on it's way out. GM has completely lost sight of it's core market. Buick has always been known for understated performance. It has always been a car for the common guy, with a luxury edge, and underated performance. I don't have a problem with a lot of their body styles. It's the platforms that suck! If they were to take a newer lesabre, offer it in a 2 door version with a modern corperate v8 and rear wheel drive, it would be an excellent car! If they took it a step further and made it handle, all the better. I like the look of the newer lesabres. Big cars are good, but they need the driveline to back it up. That's my opinion on it. ________ VAPIR ONE V5.0 VAPORIZER
