The Big Three - 30 years of denial

Hector · Nov 22, 2008

Well I've read all the posts on this thread for a while and I figured might as well give my 2 cents too.I'm not an auto worker but I've been paying my dues for twenty+ years as a steel worker and as a machinist.All my vehicles have been GM products and so are my wife's and we are planning on keeping it that way in the future,if the the big three go down we will just drive old cars.No imported logos in our grills,thank you very much!Call us old fashioned or whatever,we just drew the line there a long time ago.That's just our view of things.

D-Con · Nov 23, 2008

Annie Oakley said: ↑

Don't forget the other costs involved in producing products within the US. Direct labor cost is a small percentage of the cost of doing business. Overhead chokes most businesses more than the labor costs. With the US having the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world (and a burdensome, leviathan tax code) PLUS onerous environmental & safety laws and white tape, going to a more "corporate friendly" location outside the US is most beneficial.

I was GM salaried supervision and then GM/Delphi UAW skilled trades. I've seen it from both sides. The Union had it's purposes, but like any organization, has become just another self-perpetuating "big corporation" hellbent on maintaining it's own existence regardless of the benefit to it's members. I talked to many UAW members with 20+ years seniority who NEVER used the majority of the benefits to which they were entitled. Yet they kept asking for more. The UAW had the best dental benefits in the world, but the same guy griping that he was entitled to MORE, had obviously never maxed out his yearly dental benefits. Not to mention, the yearly stipend for education (upwards of $2500 the last time I looked at it, more now) - few, if any, ever used those benefits to improve themselves. And the overwhelming attitude of the "level playing field regardless of talent" was a huge detriment to efficient management of union employees. As a supervisor - an employee who excelled could not be rewarded, lest the rest of the same-classification employees be denied something. A poor performing employee was impossible to reprimand, as the union protected the worst workers the most. The system choked itself to maintain mediocracy in the quest for "fairness".

Alternately, management was top heavy and inefficient in its own right. The whole "Lopez" purchasing scheme of the early 90s was a farce. I, as an engineer, send a set of specs out for bids on equipment. Bean counters take the lowest bid, slash 15% off it, and send that number back out to the bidders and tell them that is the price that would be paid. If they could meet it, great, if not - oh well. Meanwhile, as the engineer in charge of the monstrous project, if the company I found to be the most qualified didn't end up being the CHEAPEST in price, then I had to justify the added cost to the bean counters. And, it couldn't be knowledge of the better manufacturer, better standards, etc. It had to be put on paper so the beanies could understand. Don't make me tell you how I was awake nights trying to get my 2nd batch of rotor coating machines from the same company that was currently building the 1st batch (they didn't bid the cheapest). Finally, I devised a cost on paper that showed gallons of waste water created by the machines I wanted vs. the cheap ones. My preferred machines put out less, and at $.01/gallon, the yearly cost was less for my machines. No kidding, I should have been rewarded a Nobel Prize for getting that passed through.

Don't even get me started on the "Workplace Organization" craze that went through management, which had all of us outlining our phones and staplers with tape lines so we could keep the tops of our desks organized. They even went so far as to put tape on the floors where the trash cans were and in an arc that showed the swing of the door.

Having seen it from both sides for 18 years in the same GM/Delphi plant and a little stint for Saturn - I can say that there is enough blame for both sides. Even though I live in the hell that is Michigan and the implosion of the auto industry will only make Michigan WORSE - I believe they should be left to get out of their own hole without taxpayer money. The entire bailout deal is an unconstitutional FARCE, will be counterproductive on all fronts, and will not improve our economy.

And so goes the ramblings of a destitute, woman who has stayed up too late trying to figure out how to keep from losing my house, the farm, and every possession that I worked my rearend off to get for 25 years - while never asking or taking assistance from the government or anyone else. I guess I should have just sat on my rear and waited for someone else to take care of me. Damn my parents for instilling personal responsibility and values in me! :af: They should have taught me how to take full advantage of all the social programs!

Gotta get to bed now, so I can get up and get to class (yes, I guess that livelong learning thing and the need to improve myself is a gift that keeps on giving) then to work (gotta be sure to get those tax dollars sent in to reward everyone else). :dollar:
Click to expand...

Annie's post was so good I thought it should be put up again.

GM being willing to give up 2 of the 5 corporate jets exhibits the sort of management attitude I want none of my money going toward. What a bunch of self-serving elitist a$$holes! My employing company is now worth almost twice that of GM and we have no corporate planes. maybe they should make them ride a Greyhound, it parallels their performance.

I also propose that if the UAW thinks it is such a great deal for us tax-payers to bail out the big-3, that they should put 100% of their strike, pension, and any other funds where their mouth is before we tax payers put up a nickel. Invest in their own livelihood instead of me! As real shareholders in the profitability of the companies, maybe the UAW's attitudes will change instead of expecting to transfer their sense of entitlement from the Big-3 to the Big-G. The good folks should be able to cull the duds from the floor to the exec offices and management will become anyone with a better idea and a way to implement it.

Junkman · Nov 23, 2008

GM is investing 1 billion $'s in Brazil,where they are making a huge profit,unlike here in the states.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320909&CategoryId=12396

John Codman · Nov 24, 2008

To DCon, I love airplanes, but you have a good point. If I may:
The CEOs of the big three who appeared in front of a congressional committee begging for a huge bailout just don't get it. If I had been one of those corporate "leaders", I would have driven one of my products to DC from Detroit. It ain't that far. I would then have parked it in front of the capital steps and would have made damn sure that the press took lots of great photos of me and the pols with my American car in the photo. From where I sit, taking the Gulfstream or whatever smacks of a sickening arrogance.
If these guys are the best our auto industry can come up with, god help us!

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The Big Three - 30 years of denial

Hector '79 Buick Limited

D-Con Kills Rats and Mice

Junkman Well-Known Member

John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

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