So I *think* I read something about Shell Rotella T now being reformulated with less zinc than before. Has anybody else heard about this? I ask as i'm due for an oil change - I have my cam break-in additive already - but now i'm not sure if I should be putting this *supposedly* new Rotella in.
Just add more addtive with what ever oil you use, It replaces the needed stuff. Get any oil you want. Yep the good levels of zinc are gone from all road oil, cept for racing use only labled stuff. ZDDPLUS OIL ADDITIVE
From what I've read (take with a grain of salt), new Rotella dropped from 1400 PPM of zince to 1200 PPM...I think it is still OK, but that's just one man's opinion, and you'll find LOTS of them on oil.
Yes, Rotella has been cut back due to new emissions systems on OTR trucks. As long as your camshaft is broken in, You should be alright. nailheads dont have enough spring pressure to really cause any big issues. Now if you've got some nasty 300# open pressure and you idle a lot, you may see some issues down the road. Once you are sure you're engine is broken in, I wouldn't worry about it. Kind of like putting lead substitute in. Mike
ZDDP really has an active protective effect on cam (and lifter, and gear) wear. The layer it forms under pressure is "sacrificial" meaning it goes away as it's protecting. SAE studies showed that "enough" ZDDP was sufficient and "extra" did not decrease wear significantly until "pressure" went up... Spring pressure most notably but all other sorts of pressure on the things besides the valve train that are protected by ZDDP (like I said gears, and other direct pressure surfaces, push rod tips, rocker fulcrums, valve stem tips... Hell maybe even Rings on ring lands (as examples). For stock spring pressures 10% ZDDP was "enough" higher pressures required that ZDDP levels go up several percentage points to get the wear metals back down to where they were with lower pressures. The study had specific numbers. The 8% available in most current spec off the shelf oils is NOT sufficient for even regular old garden variety flat tappet engines. I've pushed this before on other forums so I feel like I'm pimping Mobil 1 but Mobil 1 "High Mileage" (M1 HM from here on) has just over this 10% and comes in car viscosity's like 10w30. It's what I've got in all my own vehicles which all happen to be flat tappet. A great resource for oil knowledge is www.bobistheoilguy.com (BITOG) where analysis of most brands can be found. Besides having an older specification which allows M1 HM to have more ZDDP it is also an excellent oil in terms of its base stock, and its additives.
I use Rotella together with a bottle of Comp or Schneider cam break-in. -Lee Atomic Radio www.atomicpinup.com
Surprisingly Walmart has "SF" oil on the shelf now with zinc in it....its under the accel brand 10w-40.....J
The latest Rotella API formulation also contains increased detergents (calcium, etc.) Recent research has shown that high-levels of detergents counteract the anti-wear properties of zddp. So be sure to add an AW additive (but don't go over 3000ppm zddp, this is also not good). Summit sells Crane Super Lube which has 130,000+ ppm of Zn and P each. You need less than an ounce per oil change. An 8-oz bottle costs $9 plus shipping.
Okay, so here's the big question. For those of us who have been running regular motor oil in our old flat tappet engines, how likely is it that we have caused damage that now requires a cam/lifter change? How long has the required zinc levels that we need for our engines been out regular motor oil? Any ideas?
There is no such thing as a little damage when it comes to the cam, lifter contact area. If the is any kind of problem there the cam will go flat, period, end of story. So if your engine is running with no missing or clattering I would guess there is no damage so far. It would be a good idea to get something in there with zinc so you don't have a problem. Good Luck Bob H.
I second that! The "green" oil. I have been told this IS the original "Kendall" motor oil recipie unchanged from way back. Can anyone else confirm that? Erik
I know this comes up often... but it would be a great idea for something like this to be a sticky, listing all relevant oils and (if any) additives required. I have hardly any knowledge on the subject, but there are guys on this forum who could put something together i'm sure
According to their web site: The Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 Racing Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1 oils typical 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid flat tappet type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1 oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1 Racing Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring metal wetting characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1 Racing Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1 Racing Oils are 100% Made in the USA. It seems like the answer to what we need but it is expensive. Sellers on ebay have it listed for $50 plus $17 shipping. Over $5 a quart!
95 chevy silverado 330,000 miles no oil related repairs. Uses 1 qt every 2500 miles has since day 1. Valvoline synpower 10-40 I used mobile 1 full synthetic 1 time used 2 qts every 2500 miles. I felt the evaporation rate was too high so I will never use it again. I change the oil every 5000 miles and it looks just like it came out of the bottle. Why does oil turn black? heat and carbon steel particles. I now have a 425 nailhead and I am going to use nothing but Valvoline Synthetic Racing oil. I assume it steps up the zinc content. " Valvoline Racing Oil contains added zinc and friction modifiers, balanced with reduced detergent levels. The result is an oil that helps increase horsepower and engine wear protection. Engine dyno testing at Valvoline's state-of-the-art testing lab proves that the new Valvoline Racing formulations outperform the most widely used engine oils in grassroots racing for horsepower output. Because Valvoline Racing Oil is optimized for racing conditions, it should not be used in passenger vehicles or in wet clutch applications. Using this oil in a passenger car may damage the catalytic converter over time. Wet clutches may not operate properly due to the low friction characteristics of this engine oil." Sounds perfect for a 66 Riv that will see the show and that's about it!!! Valvoline has validated tests that it reduces engine wear 4x better than Mobil 1 http://www.valvoline.com/synpower-wearprotection/index.asp?utm_source=brandpage&utm_medium=landingpage&utm_campaign=synpower%2Bpromotion&gclid=CNzBkYrwwZcCFQv7agodBw2OTQ
I wouldn't assume a racing oil is good for your street car, they do not have enough anti aging additives for long term use. Race engines are torn down often after every race... long term contamination and Oxidation of the oil and acidification are not going to be well accounted for in a racing oil's additive package. Why would they put expensive additives in it that will never be used? It'll never have moisture in it and never sludge up, so why put additives in that reduce sludge build up? Especially if you're going to go 5000 miles between changes, that quote from valvoline even says it has less detergents. I wouldn't base an oil buying decision on something that happened to an totally clapped out 330,000 mile chevy V8... Or for that matter a factory fresh Chevy V8 from those days. Also that "good old days" oil isn't necessarily what you want either, I'm not saying it's not, but no one should just assume it is. What I do know; is that the idea that Pennsylvania motor oil is something special is an age old myth, from "the good old days" when (in a nutshell) Motor oil was so absolutely terrible that Penn crude was (briefly) something special because it reportedly was a better base stock to make an engine oil out of. Required less refining, and maintained viscosity longer. Modern oils have a lot of chemical science behind them... Back in Detroit's heyday "sludge" was a common killer of engines well before 100,000 miles... hell well before 60,000 miles for that matter... One of the main reasons (besides fuel injection) that current day engines last so much longer is modern oil.. IMO I for one sure don't want an old days oil regardless of the ZDDP level. Get a modern oil; Just make sure it has enough ZDDP in it for a flat tappet cam. Everyone talks about exotic oils like Joe Gibbs $60 per change oils... You can get M1 High Mileage (a PAO base stock oil, with around 1000ppm Zinc and Phosphorous) for 26 bucks per 5 quart jug at Walmart. If you have stock'ish spring pressures then you're done no fuss no muss. If you have stiffer springs then put an ounce or two of EOS or ZDDPlus (ebay it) and then you're done. No guessing, relatively cheap and M1 HM has a very nice additive package judging from the analysis over on BITOG. Until I see a better additive package with as high a ZDDP level, that comes in less than 20w50 and 15w40 I don't think there's a better option.
Why are you guys making this more complicated than is had to be? Use the Wal-Mart SF Accel oil and be done with it:TU: Only $2 a quart too:laugh:
just my 2 cents worth.... brake in your "new" engine with rotella or SM conventional oil and ZDDP additive ,put rubber front and rear main seals in the darn thing and joint the round earth society and use full synthetic oil...there are no negitives ,only positives(except price) but I didnt think that was an issue.... and after all I've researched use the zddp in the full syn oil...it aint your fathers molil 1 anymone.. 200 passes and still going strong...God bless 10w30 mobil 1 and Carmen Fasco....nailheads dont need no stinkin oil pressure anyway....
join,joint its all good it's a 60's car.... peace out out bro....And might I suggest a Boddington's Pub ale on the wintery evening....
