Tesla

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by rmstg2, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    A Hydrogen fuel cell would be a better answer. The Hydrogen Atom is the smallest known element. Since it is smaller that any other Atom, and it must be stored in some container made from Atoms, it is a bit like trying to store water in a very fine sieve; leakage can be reduced to a minimum, but it can't be completely stopped. Probably not a problem for vehicles that get regular usage, but a disaster on several levels for a car that will sit a lot or be stored.

    Just a minor point. JW's comment was accurate with one tiny detail omitted. Henry Ford did not invent the assembly line. He was the first to apply a powered assembly system to automotive production. Oldsmobile used an assembly line before Ford did, but the incomplete cars were towed either on carts or the chassis' wheels (depending on the stage of assembly) from one work station to the next. Firearms were also produced using assembly lines.
     
  2. Buick Power

    Buick Power Well-Known Member

  3. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    We do not have a Tesla, but do have a 2012 Nissan Leaf bought new in 2013. It is a 100% Electric Vehicle (EV) with a 24 KW battery and 85 KW motor. The simplicity is the most striking feature of these cars. It is a battery, charging system and synchronous electric motor hooked to a limited slip front axle. There is no transmission, induction system, exhaust system, oiling system, engine cooling system, bearings, valves, camshaft, pistons, lifters or any other traditional internal combustion engine (ICE) components. The nice part is that these components can not be damaged, fail or wear if they are not employed or installed.

    We have owned it for 6 months and 13,000 miles. That includes enough seasons (winter/summer in PA) and travel to posses a greater understanding of its capabilities. We average almost 4 miles per KW after starting around 3 miles per KW. That means the range is currently over 90 miles on a full 24 KW charge. Some longer term owners claim over 5 miles per KW (120 mile range), but we are still learning how to drive in that realm. It is extremely quiet, but has well over 200 ft/lfs of torque that silently flings it forward. It is not a rocket, but still pulls away from most mom-mobiles nicely. Since you sit over the battery the weight distribution is low and even. This means it handles surprisingly well and is very stable. It can be programmed to warm or cool the cabin while it is on the charger before you leave. This allows you to only use energy to maintain the cabin climate once you are off the charger. I have found this is a very good way to save efficiency on the way to work.

    The purchase price was not as bad as you think. Our SL model with all the upscale features stickered at 40K, but it and many other new 2012s were still sitting on lots across the country with the 2013 models in the early part of this year. Nissan offered the dealers incentives to move the 2012s and they passed the incentives along to the consumer. Our dealer was willing to take 26k for ours. PA offered a 3K rebate on new EVs that we got a month later. The federal government has a 7.5K tax credit for the purchase of a new EV and a 1K tax credit for charging equipment. Since we liquidated a poorly invested IRA in my mothers name this year, we will be able to use most of the tax credit available - most will not. This means we will have a 40K car for 14.5K after incentives, rebates and credits.

    The operational costs are where it really shines. This is our daily driver and my commuter car. We average almost 70 miles a day between the work commute, store trips and child logistics. The 220v 3.3 KW charger is on for about 5-6 hours nightly at about 10 cents per KW after taxes here. That is about $1.65 to $2.00 a charge. That coincides with the $60 increase in our electric bill vs. the same months last year. This means our energy costs for the Leaf are roughly 3 cents per mile. The XL7 it replaces got roughly 18 MPG. At $3.55 per gallon, the XL7 costs 20 cents per mile for fuel. That translates to $420 monthly in the XL7 for fuel alone in our monthly 2100 mile travels vs $60 to power the Leaf over the same miles. That is a $360 saving per month or over 4K per year.

    For us the future is here now: it is simpler and costs less to own and operate. It can not be your only car if you want to travel any distance, but can fill role for the daily grind without issue. Our model shares the 440v rapid charge port with the Tesla, but rapidly charging the battery is hard on it. The 440v charge would still take 20 minutes, and it would degrade the battery rapidly (Nissan recommends against regular use of the 440v charger). So, a network of chargers along a long route would not be practical or expedient at this point.

    Cheryl :)
     
  4. 442w30

    442w30 Well-Known Member

    Except that Henry Ford didn't invent the assembly line, and neither did RE Olds, although his company was the first manufacturer to exploit the assembly line. HF merely perfected it.

    Another old wive's tale - it's not true that all Model Ts are black.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....
     
  5. gsman

    gsman '67 GS 400

     
  6. jpete

    jpete Well-Known Member

  7. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    Actually black was not even available on the model T until 1913. Until then, the T was available in only gray, green, blue, and red.
     
  8. Buick Power

    Buick Power Well-Known Member

     
  9. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    As related above, the battery is protected for 8 years and 100K miles. It is also protected against degradation under the same parameters. Most think the batteries will last to warranty specifications for at least 15 years unless used in extremely hot climates. Some early degradation has been found in some models in AZ. A replacement battery unit is expected to retail between $3500 and $5000 with labor, warranty and a core exchange from Nissan. Nissan has not yet released the price of an exchange, but official, unofficial, sources from Nissan have leaked the price range above. Nissan, instead, is currently offering a warranty for $100 a month for batteries past their warranty (which I doubt has happened for anyone yet).

    The batteries are composed of 64 cells that can be tested and replaced as needed. Re-manufactured batteries may cost much less then replacement batteries by the time anyone really needs a replacement not covered under warranty.

    Cheryl :)
     
  10. woodchuck2

    woodchuck2 Well-Known Member

    Yes it was Westinghouse, with Nicola Tesla designing it. He and Westinghouse had a partnership and Tesla was suppose to get 50% of the proceeds when the system took off. But Westinghouse was broke so Tesla gave back his commision believeing he was on to bigger and better things. Due to Edisons patent on the light bulb "using a filiment and screw base" for Westinghouse to light up the Worlds Fair Tesla had to come up with a whole new lighting design, thus the 2 pin fluorecscent light bulb came to be. Tesla actually worked for Edison for a short while until he and Edison clashed over an idea and patent rights. Tesla quit and went on his way to become an inventor himself.

    The Tesla car can go as far as 300 miles and the company has been experimenting with a proto-type battery capable of 800 miles. Are these cars expensive? Yes, but when compared to the Volt or Leaf, they are comperable and technically more efficient. I also read recently that in the safety tests the Tesla car scored higher than 100% because it actually broke the machine used to crush the roof in testing. http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-model-s-scores-highest-ever-in-federal-crash-tests/
     
  11. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    CBS broadcast the story about the Tesla crash tests. It scored the highest of any car in history.
    BTW: For airplane junkies: The FAA requires that an airplane wing be stressed to destruction in a fixture to prove the design strength. Minimum strength in a light plane is 3.76 Gs positive continuous, Above that the wing may deform but may not fail until 5.64 Gs positive (150 % of the working design strength) Half of that for negative Gs. This is for "normal" category aircraft; "utility" and "aerobatic" aircraft are higher. When Mooney designed the all-metal single-piece wing for it's single-engined retractables back in the late 50s or early 60s, the test fixture failed at a bit over 13 Gs positive. The FAA, normally sticklers for regulations, said that they were satisfied with the Mooney's wing. None has ever failed in flight, and to this day, no one knows what it would take to break one.
     
  12. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    ..and the cabin cage ain't bad either. Those "backward-tail" birds have always been my favorite...

    ---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

    ...originally Midnight Blue. Henry's real contribution was providing workers decent wage/hours, with expectation they would spend it on things...including his cars...
     
  13. speedtigger

    speedtigger 9 Second Club

    The auto manufacturers have great motive to slow down the advancement of electric cars. Electric cars need next to no maintenance. No oil, filters, spark plugs, transmissions, coolant etc etc etc. They also have regenerative breaking which tremendously reduces wear on the brakes.

    Imagine what this does to the profitability after the purchase not just for the manufacturer but the dealerships as well. Dealerships make more on service and repair than they do selling the cars.

    There is your motive.
     

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