I way over simplified my meaning. Should have said; There are other ways to get more air into the cylinders. Bigger valves increase the flow area all the way up to the point the port becomes the restriction. They also increase size you are able to open the throat area up to to raise the point where the port becomes the restriction. Really a win-win with no downsides. I'm talking about the common oversize valves for SBB, not a theory with unlimited valve size. Yes a 3" intake and 2.75" exhaust might kill low end power but again it's not something we can do given the bore size we have. By increasing the duration you can keep the lift reasonable to have longer spring and guide life. With the same total flow. I'm guessing Jacobs idle quality sounds and acts like a stocker with those cam specs. Could have done much more with it being a roller. Not bashing your cam choice Jacob. Just pointing out with a roller you can open the valve faster, but lower and hold it open longer.
You can make asymmetric lobes to take advantage of leaving lifts within the peak zone longer without having to overshoot the lift on symmetric lobes by .150 lift... I think people get carried away with bigger is always better and forget that there is a line you can cross where diminished returns become exponential to the point of becoming detrimental, not to mention valvetrain geometry becomes so stressed that I wouldn't be comfortable with an engine builder who recommended such a setup. Moderately ported Buick 350 iron heads only peak out between .400 and .450 lifts, with peanuts gained (if you're lucky) after that. A full 95% or more of the head flow is between .200 and .400 on the vast majority of all Buick 350 heads. You can only leave lifts there so long before you gain nothing by leaving them there longer (or even harm performance). There is only 360* in any circle fellas. OEM replica cams have newer tweaks added in that the older OEM cams didn't, and use similar new hardening (among other) technology the newer performance cams use, but hey it'll all wear the same, right? Right?? Thought so. Untouched factory head flow design peaks out below .400 lift, which puts the OEM GS replica cams right where they need to be (go figure), along with the quicker opening and slower closing ramp profiles keeping them open there longer. No one (not even me) has ever claimed an OEM cam will produce more power than a properly designed performance cam, because more is taken into consideration than simply raw performance around such a design. If it isn't stroked out with hogged out heads using large headers and a huge cam, many people errantly believe it won't perform. I consider it poetically ironic then that all properly built iron 350's with mild cams are running faster in the 1/4 than many others with 1,000's of dollars more parts/labor stuffed into/onto them. If a person with goods and services to sell (or the potential to do so, cramming "PM me" down everyone's throat every time there's a question brought up so their manipulation can go unchecked) trying to tell everyone that it'll run like junk if you don't do this or that to your engine, or that they have some 'magic recipe' that no one else has figured out, while trying to discredit anything anyone else with a brain has to say, I'd have to question their motives... Incoming flamers and/or one-upper comments to ensue.
With a forced induction in mind for my build I left it up to Mike at TA to determine my cam specs. I also specified that I wanted a cam that could take advantage of the aluminum heads when they are released. Stock iron heads may max out below .400" but the aluminum heads should fare much better. As for duration, this may be a small cam but no matter what I do I can't make more power than the stock shortblock can handle anyway before something breaks. The idle is just enough of a rumble to keep me happy. Not lumpy by any means but it's noticeable. No offense taken, but I feel the end goal of my build doesn't require as strict airflow considerations as a max effort NA engine would.
Printed out the piston order form from Diamond Pistons....gonna go back to the shop on Monday for a couple of answers. I asked them on Thursday if they would order them, but they said no...(Because they know we buy everything from the US, and pick it all up in Montana, and in no way can touch the prices.) They also said to check out another manufacturer for roller rockers, but they are the same price as TA, and may require offset lifters. This build is getting very "Custom". Still on the fence about the cam, because the pistons, cam, and roller rockers will easily be over $3500.00 Canadian....and still haven't paid for any block/head machining yet.
Honestly if cost is a factor the postons from Scotty Brown are about 40% lower cost than the diamonds. Regarding the cam again if budget is a concern then a flat tappet is the answer and again Scotty can get a custom grind for less than most off the shelf versions... I have a new in the box huge solid lifter flat tappet cam I could sell for low $. You don't really need roller rockers unless you go huge on the cam. Again if on a budget use stock rockers and just ensure the valves are the same height so you don't need much adjustability and just order custom pushrods once it's mocked up... Or use adjustable pushrods.... If this engine had all the best parts like the alum heads etc. then I would vote to go all out on everything but this is not a max effort build so keep it simple. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLGvTvFzdMg_O2T3UdUEt5dIHutSOu7srE&v=8VjFZMKvEwY
Yeah, the AutoTec pistons include the wristpins AND the rings; http://www.buyracingparts.com/pisto...stons/autotec-forged-350-buick-pistons-1.html I believe you can order them with the wristpins you need for the rods you have, should be around $300 less than the Diamonds. Unless you plan to use more than a 200 HP shot of nitrous or plan on running more than 5 psi of boost the 4032 forged AutoTecs would be the ticket. If you plan on a whole lot of nitrous or more than 5 psi of boost then the 2618 forged Diamond custom pistons would be the way to go. GL Derek
Thanks guys. May need to wait until after Christmas before we spend any more money on this...don't want to skimp too much on the real important things, so if we have to wait a bit...so be it. I'd rather have better quality parts, than wishing we bought something else later on.
Sorry to threadjack, just curious about the stroking the engine thing. I've had a lot of time to think about this and it seems a reasonable idea. To the OP, how much did you end up going? Was it a big investment? Sorry if I missed those posts. FWIW, I goal isn't a super high horsepower engine, just trying to maximize what I can get from factory iron heads (and an aluminum intake flow matched) while maintaining a quiet easy going ride in my Skylark convertible.
Shop said the compression height is 1.750" to get a zero deck height with the Nascar rods, (6.450") and the stroker crank. (3.970" stroke) Yes, it was a big investment...to us anyways. To have the rod ends milled down 0.050", have the crank offset ground, and for the rod bearings, was just over $1000.00
Yeah but that was a Canadian thousand. :shock: He needs to shop around for a crankshaft grind shop in Texas and get some pricing, I think it can be done for less down there because I know it can be done for less here. One of the crank shops that Dave from Enginecraft deals with just moved out of a ghetto in Detroit a lot closer and is finally setup to crank out some work.(pun intended :laugh I'm going to get some pricing from him for stroking a sbb 350 crank for future reference. Derek
Yeah, there are not a lot of machine shops that do that kind of work anymore around here.... It seems that if it's not a Chevy 350, they can't do anything with it. Something that shocked me was when a guy came in with a cast 350 crank, and asked for a price to regrind it. $300.00 is what they told him. Which is the same price as a new billet Scat crank.... They said it's not worth having the equipment to do the work, when you can buy better, new stuff, for the same price.
It's only profitable to run some machines when they are going to turn the spindle all day and the set up doesn't change in between. Small places that are only going to grind a few cranks can hardly justify the effort, so they are going to bid you high. Places that keep the machine busy doing fleet work, etc. can slip yours in and call it 'providing a good service'. For example, when using 2 grinders they can be set up to blast through a pile of the same type without set up changes. They really don't keep the machines around to do the occasional crank that slides through. With all the grinders being auctioned off right now, my thought was to keep one around and only do $pecial project$ or short run manufacturing. Bear in mind that many of those need complete rebuilding. There's a reason a top machine is well into the six figures.
If you do another one maybe you can go south of the border to have it done? And if Brian is price shopping to have a sbb stroker crank ground perhaps he can shop south of his border for a better price if that's a big concern as well? There has to be a Mexican machine shop close to the border, if you speak or you have someone to translate Spanish for you? Not sure how good they would be but they for sure would cost less. :eek2: Derek
Everything we have bought for my son's car....besides the radiator, has come from the USA. Even with the crappy exchange rate, it's still cheaper to buy new and used from the US.
I'm not likely to go shopping south of the border. If it were the 90s and I was still traveling to Mexico(San Luis Potosi) every 3 to 4 months, then I would consider it. But then of course, I wouldn't be posting at this site...
Parts wise. We paid a Canadian shop to install the Doug's ceramic coated headers and 2 1/2" exhaust system we bought from the states. We paid a Canadian shop to install the 3:73 gear set and Tru Trac we bought from the states. We paid Canadian shops to machine the NASCAR rods we bought from the states, and the spare crank we had. We are paying a Canadian shop for the machining of the heads we got from Sean, and using the stainless steel valves from TA Performance....which is in the states. We paid a Canadian shop to mount and balance the tires, and rims we bought from the states. The Holley carb, TA Performance SP3 intake, valve covers, air cleaner, complete MSD ignition system, Holley electric fuel pump, alternator, electric fans, side mirrors, bumperetts, rear tail lights, tail light surrounds, steering wheel, and all missing steering column parts....all, from the States. Litterly....the only part on this car that we bought, that is from Canada....is the 4-core rad. So when looking for parts, the exchange on our money has a huge impact on where we buy from...and even now, with the crappy exchange rate, we find that it is still cheaper to buy from the US, and get everything shipped to the border. You guys have all the parts....all the shops.....and all the fun.:TU:
Well you got the heads from me, and I am in Canada.. Oh wait I got those heads from Detroit LOL... Flew to Ontario for a wedding and rented a budget rental van, drove to Detroit, bought a Buick 350 and shipped it by rail back to Edmonton... Flew back and picked it up LOL! I should have took pictures of that... Arrived at the border crossing to see about a 2 hour line up so I went to the big rig booths and played dumb, "oh really I'm in the wrong line?". The border guy thought the engine in the back was cool enough and I talked about the North American Free Trade agreement and went on my way with no issues... Then got caught speeding (90 MPH) on the way to the rail car shipping depot, met a cool Ontario cop who understood my rush and piloted me to the depot... Good times, and I made it to the wedding LOL!
Now back to our regular scheduled program.... All these threads of cams has taken its toll... Trying to pick a roller cam for this build. Will be ordering TA roller rockers with 1.6:1 ratio, cam button, springs, timing set and roller lifters, all at the same time. Still have not ordered the pistons yet either, but need the springs to get the heads together. Read where Mike (Jr.?) from TA has a cam that did 12.6 in the 1/4....and Sean sold a cam with similar spec's to someone on here....Jim I think. (Gymracer) Would like to order tomorrow, so we can pick this stuff up on my next days off.
