Hey everybody i was looking 4 some help here, I was wondering if anyone knows the frame pads i need to get to install a 350SBC into my 69GS, or will the ones in the car now work? Any other help on this swap would be much appreciated so there are less suprises along the way. I dont like it anymore than you do, ive got so many buick parts in the garage it aint funny, but i like HP and driving, and until i can afford to plop down $300 a piece for a manifold or headers or a cam set, its gonna have a chevy in it, love the buicks, cant afford the motors now though. Thanks, Jim
Whoa, SBC in a sweet 69 GS? Double check aruond here for some cheap speed parts for your GS before you decide for sure. I assume it is a 350 car right? You are correct on the availability of Chebbie parts, but they ain't cheap either. Did the original engine go ka-boom? I sure you will get some good advice here...
If your looking for horsepower why you putting a small block Chevy in it??? :laugh: You'd probably make alot more power cheaper with a stock used 455 Electra motor then you will in a massaged 350 chebby. :spank:
Jim, I am a chevy guy and have been forever. My race car is chevy powered(kinda). I know what you are saying but let me tell you, my 455 is like ---nothing. cast pistons ,nothing camshaft( ta 413) ,arp bolts in the rods , 10 10 crank-- I mean nothing. The car has so much torque ---which is what you want on the street. This thing is the most fun street car I've ever had and I have had bunch.Sure there are cheap combos available for small block chevy but on the street you want that torque to have fun with and a small block chevies with real power is not gonna give you that . George PS. I can leave a stop light in 3rd gear ! PPS Its your car -- you would have to buy frame mounts and motor mounts for chevelle to get a small block chevy to fit. OPG,Classic Industries, etc all have them.
Thanks man, thats what i was thinking, im hoping every thing else works, radiator, distance from back of motor to the BOP 350T thats in there and im hoping the adapter plate isnt a nightmare, although right now its up in the air on a 400T swap, trust me Id rather have a buick 455 but i dont make enough cash to do that swap and have what i want. That will be what replaces the 383 im building for it now when the time comes, but im a 23 yr old millwright/welder and the cash just isnt there. Unless u guys have enough parts laying around and we can run a charity event called Operation Keep the Buick, Buick. :Brow: But i doubt it. My numbers on the desktop dyno with me spending $3000 bucks are 400HP + 425ftlbs from the street mannered 383 VS the amount of 455 i can afford which is about 550ft lbs. :jd: but only 300HP tops (8.5:1) autozone motor with some bolt ons. Unless you guys have some awesome money saving ideas for the 4 double 5 im gonna be dropping the SBC off at the machine shop next week, HELP ME OUT HERE!!!!
First of all 550ft lbs. of torque and only 300 hp? You are using a cheby desktop dyno! I am sure someone on this board has a 455 putting out 450-500 horses for that kinda money. Check with Buick535 . you have spoken sacrilge on this site ask forgiveness from all the buick brothren,but we all do what we got to.
I would bet you $20 that a stock running 1970 Buick 455 that you could find in granny's Electra for $500-$800 would run the same or better quarter mile than the 383 Chevy that you build, unless you do aluminum heads and 11:1 compression.
Frame pads from a 68-72 chevelle will work. Chevelle radiator hoses and get yourself another engine wiring harness "alot of splicing to do" so you could put a buick engine in later.
Jim I can see that your heart is in the right place; we just got to get your brain there. Have you put the Desktop Dyno numbers you posted into Desktop Dragstrip? I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Buick were quicker. I'm sure it would be at least close. Torque is what accelerates a car, not HP. I'd gladly trade 100 HP for 125 Ft/lbs of torque any day! You can easilly go 12s with $3000 worth of Buick 455, not hack up your wiring harness, and continue to use your existing trans (until it breaks, which it will sooner or later with either motor.) Check out this thread: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=63211 There have also been a couple of other threads on dirt cheap combinations. Keep doing your homework; you will realize that $3000 spent on a BBB is way better than $3000 spent on a SBC.
Save your breath everybody, he isn't going to change his mind. This is what we have been fighting against for YEARS! Chevy people are so blinded by the years of "Chevys are best" that is beat in to their heads that they are unable to accept any other manufacturer as a viable alternative. We all know that if you shop around and get a B4B or Performer used, port match it, hopefully find a set of Stage1 heads for a good price and then have the bottom end built by someone who is NOT a Chevy guy (so it lasts), then you'll have an engine that will not have to rev past 5500 RPM, likes pump gas and gets you rolling lot QUICKER than most of the other engines out there. AND people won't yawn or look away when you pop the hood. I dusted an '04 Mach1 at the track. He had a slight head start due to his dialin, but I caught him almost immediately due to all my torque. Then I just stayed ahead of him the rest of the way down the strip. Any my car weighs 4400 lbs! People laugh at Buicks until they lose to one. And then they still laugh because they just don't know any better.
Is this for a race car or a street driver? Race Car - put the chevy in, go racing, when you can, build a Buick, go racing some more, have fun! Street Car - save up a little more $$$, build a Buick engine right, get your $$$ back in the long run, have fun! If you're not having fun, something's wrong either way...
Yards--Don't write Jim off yet. Yes, there are a lot of folks with that mentality, but I believe Jim will see the light. (need a "crossing my fingers" simley!)
Jim A couple of other things to consider. That Chevy will need a 3000 stall converter to get out of the hole; the BBB will do OK with the stock converter, and will be really happy with a 2400 or so stall. Your car probably has 3.23 gears. Great gears for a BBB, but that Chevy is gonna want a much higher ratio rear end. That Chevy will have to wind to at least 6000rpm to make power, requiring expensive valve train componants. You won't need wind the Buick above 50-5500, and it will be fine with stock rockers and adjustable pushrods. Might even get away with stock valve springs, if you don't go too big on the cam.
400HP + 425TQ = 825 compared to 300 + 550 = 850. Yea in the example he gave the Buick which makes a little more power (850) would likley be a little faster especially in a heavy street car. Also as mentioned it would not require the gear or converter. Then again in would be harder on tires but is that good or bad. Lastly since you are not spinning the snot out of it to get the power out it stands a better chance of living longer and with less maintenance especially as noted in the valvetrain area.
I thank you all for your ideas, like i say i still WANT a buick, I know they are the better engine even with some of their downfalls, BUT, unless i can find one cheap here in the next month at the most im gonna have to go with the SBC, im searching, but havent found anything yet, if any of you know someone with one for sale in the runable shortblock+heads setup let me know, the cheapest i can find one is at Autozone and they want about 1700 without a core. In the land of the chevies, Tourque is king.
By the way has anyone bought the autozone engine, remanufactured by Recon. I called them and the rep couldnt even give me a compression ratio but he told me its a standard one they use in every Buick 455, even if I wanted one for a smogger 1976 or a 1970 GS stage 1, id get the same thing, my guess is about 8.5 to 1. I know that would perform decent with a TA212 cam stuffed in it. And my numbers were a little off on that desktop dyno comparo. I was running a SBC with the port flow numbers on sportsman 2 heads. VS a 455 Buick with stock port/valves. I found some actual buick 455 stock head flow numbers on Jim Weises site and put those in and WOW what a difference that made. So without good head flow numbers dont even trust desktop dyno.
Jim look for a running and driving electra or riv or some other big car and pull the motor and trans out and drop it in. I guarentee you with a little shopping. You could do a bb transplant for under $1000. Been there done that. Then after it is in the car start buying bolt on pieces as you can afford them ex. intake, headers, converter and so on. Sell the 350 chebby to someone for thier IROC. Buying something complete gets you the pulleys, starter and all the right brackets. Crush the rest of the car for scrap or sell it to a demo derby guy. {Sorry to all the boat fans}. Do your shopping here on the board or ebay and you can eventually find everything you will need. Or someone will point you in the right dirrection. I sold a complete 73 455 motor and trans for 400.00 on the board about a month ago.
One other little story to tell. Back in highschool there were two brothers that had a 80 malibu with a 350 in it with the standard super chevy build. :sleep: They had 4:10 gears and thought this was the fastest thing you have ever seen run. A buddy of mine had a 70 Skylark that he dropped a 70 455 stage1heads,headers and a Kenne bell 118 cam with a th400. Every time my buddy tried to race them they always had some excuse. They should have done it before he put a posi in. When my buddy finally cornered them at lunch one day. They raced only once. It was an absolute flogging by the Buick. Plus there were four people in the Buick. They got thrashed so bad at school that they didn't even bring the car back to school for the rest of the year. They said they blew it up racing the Buick. But some friend of thiers said they were too embarresed after running their mouth all the time.
Jim, Send a PM to Tim "Old Pueblo" here on the board. A couple of weeks ago he was telling me about someone selling a rebuilt 455 with some go fast parts and a worked TH400 if I remember it right, no promises my memory fails from time to time. ou: I think all it needed was headers/manifolds, and an intake and carb. and I think he wanted 2k for the whole deal. Just a thought!!
