I think we see quite plainly that the “story” of a car is more important to value than than any specific. George’s car and all those documents, to me, make it more valuable than the same car with the factory block and no documents…
Interesting point. The '70 GSX I owned had a mountain of original paperwork and was non numbers. There is no way I would have traded that pile for a complete and perfect original engine, let alone the block itself.
OK everybody, I have been reading all these responses to everybody engaged in this topic, "Poll value in matching numbers block". I get to be the experiment because this is my first Buick muscle car buy. A little history. My father was a Buick lover (not muscle car) mostly for the luxury ride and looks. His first Buick I can remember was a 1953 Buick Special with I believe the first V8 nailhead. Great looking car. When I was 15, he bought a super nice Buick Wildcat Hardtop, Red with a white top. Had maroon interior and the 425 nailhead engine. That got my attention, but it didn't get to me for until many years later. My first $600 car was a 64 Chevy Biscayne 6 banger. 19 and in the Navy, not my first choice but all I could afford. Second car, 1956 Chevy Belair that I built into a hotrod and it was fast. I loved this car but it had a lot of rust (northern car, Mass). Third car, 1965 Chevelle, ok car but not a hotrod. Forth car, 1975 Corvette. A car I did NOT want to buy but my Dad insisted I buy a new car because "old" cars are always breaking down. I also needed him to co-sign for me, Ugh!!! Worst car I ever bought. By this time I was 26 and dating my to be wife, got married at 28, we had a daughter and family and work prevented me from being able to afford another hotrod. From 28 to 72. After I retired at age of 64, I wanted another hotrod (my wife thought I lost my rocker), in 2021 (after years of hunting Buicks), I had help from the V8Buick forum, which i knew nothing about. I made a call to Marco (Buick Stage1 Registry), told him I was looking for a 1970 Stage 1 Buick. He turned me onto Chris Pollak (the Buick hunter I call him). Why a Buick Stage 1, somewhere in my life, I saw one and it was love at first sight. This car is amazing, better looking than any other American muscle car I have ever seen. #1 - My likes and wants. Love the body, love the muscle. #2 - My heart got crushed, after reviewing the cost to buy a "Restored" Stage 1, I quickly realized I couldn't afford one. You see, I live in a Townhouse with no garage. No workshop, no nothing to support a car build. Chris and I keep looking and I came across a beautiful 1970 Buick GS on Autotrader Classic cars. I sent the info to Chris and asked him, "what do you think". He says, that's not a Stage 1, ya I know, it's a GS 455 and its engine has been upgraded to a Stage 1, has enough power for me. Chris says, but you wanted bucket seats, with console & floor shifter. This has a bench seat with column shifter. I know, but that can be changed! Chris says, it won't be original anymore. This is where we get into what is "important". I don't care, I want a "Muscle Car" Not a car with a grandpa bench seat and a shifter on the column. Chris says, OK but the car will be devalued. I said NOT devalued in my mind. I'm 72 at the time in 2021. I will never sell or flip it, when I die, my wife will have to find a buyer. If I can't afford a Stage 1, I can at least have some of the options the Stage 1 came with. It is a A/C car, so the wife won't sweat to death. #3 - Paper documentation: So I have never even thought about documentation. This car came with tons of documentation including the build sheet. A lot of repair bills that later on I found a lot of engine issues that I would have to get fixed and resolved. The consignment Dealership told me a bunch of lies about this was a turn-key driver, NOT SO!!!! The really good news is, GSJo Restored this Buick, he did a super job too. John Chamberlain rebuilt the engine. Back to the repair bills, between the shop working on my engine and with John's input and inspection of photos I sent him, we found that someone had been into the engine and obvious to us, this person had no clue what they were doing. So, the shop working on the engine worked hard to resolve the detonation issues and high-water temperatures we were experiencing. Come next week, a new radiator is being installed to resolve the water temperature issue. #4 - What is most important to me, Great looking car, car with muscle, car drives great (has the F-41 package). Restoration, "first Class". Almost all of the body and frame are rust free and original to the car with the exception of a small patch in the trunk floor. #5 - Paper documentation, was fortunate got great documentation, I also took to time to get it documented by Sloan. History of car, bought new and kept by the original owner for 39 of it's 53 years. Sold to GSJo who restored (2010 or 2011) the Buick and sold it locally in Ohio. The Ohio buyer sold it back to Joe to downsizing his fleet of Buicks. Joe sold to RK Motors in Charlotte NC in 2015. A buyer from Road Island bought the car shortly thereafter. I purchased the Buick in 2021 from the consignment Dealership in RI. Sometime next week (24-28 July 2023) I will have a full-time driver, YA. Can't wait to take it to car shows and hanging out with my "old" classic car buddies. Would love to make friends with V8 Buick guys and hangout with our cars and tell big lies LOL. One of my best friends doesn't even know I have the Buick; my wife and I are having lunch with him and his wife at the end of this month. He will be "Super surprised". He has a very nice Canary Yellow 63 Nova 383 small block, 4-speed. Botton line: I guess we all have what is important to us as individuals. There is NO size that fits ALL. PS, sorry for the long post.
The “bottom line” is that the answer to this question depends on if you are the buyer or the seller! If you are the buyer, numbers matching is not that much more valuable. If you are the seller, you want Barrett Jackson money…
Numbers matter (all of them) , documentation matters, rust matters, the story and history of your car matters, level of restoration matters, and unless you find a buyer who just doesn't care (very rare in the muscle car world) everything matters,especially when you sell it ! That's my personal take after 45 years in this hobby..... Just enjoy your cars.. Frank.
Here is a link to the consignment Dealership where I bought my car in 2021. I may post another Dealership where the previous owner purchased the Buick GS in 2015. I just want to make ir clear, I'm not a "purest" when it comes to my Buick. Remember, I wanted a Stage 1 but my pockets are not deep enough. So I changed a few things to "Muscled up the Buick". Buick now has Bucket seats. Floor console with shifter. Has GSX side view mirrors. Previous owner added Tilt steering column, which I like a lot. Previous owner added the F-41 suspension, handles very good, I like it. Engine builder, ported the heads. Added a Comp Cam, bored .030 over. Love all this. I added a MSD system. So, it's not pure stock anymore, but I got what I wanted, that's all that counts for me. Check out the Video of the GS in the RK Motors link. Buick got a nice cam. 1970 Buick GS 455 - Laferriere Classic Cars (tomlaferriere.com) 135159 1970 Buick GS455 RK Motors Classic Cars and Muscle Cars for Sale
I would bet money that you could have bought a stag car with what you spent on all the changes. Might not have been as nice as this one is but it would have been the car that you started out looking for. On the other hand, I love the color combo and it looks like the engine compartment looks good which makes you proud to open the hood. You have a really nice car and should not make any apologies for it. It is your car built the way you want it. I am happy for you!!
You are right. It's a lot easier to pay for upgrades over 20 months in the shop instead of coming up with the money at one time. The color combo on this car, I fell in love with, and trying to find a primo Stage 1 in this color combo is nearly impossible. I Will enjoy it. Thank you.
Blue taste's good, parents purchased a brand new 1967 Pontiac Tempest hardtotp 326 console 4 speed. I guess I used to chew on the back of the bucket seats, I was two. Haaaa.
So, you cut your teeth on bucket seats. That's funny. My first decent car was a 72 Pontiac Lemans. No bucket seats, only a bench Lol.
Those are Dakota Digital gages. I wanted gages that were NOT just a RED warning light. The Service Manager on my car told me about Dakota Digital gages. Water temp in degrees, oil presser in pounds, battery output in volts. Also, I could get the led gage lighting in the same blue color as the interior. I love it. Also on the gages (you can't see them in my photo). You get a digital clock, it shows you what gear you are in. Now here's the real blast. There is a button you car set to tell you your ET from 0-to 60mph. You can also set it for a 1/4 mile and you'll get an ET. I didn't know that until it was installed, so cool. Dakota Digital Series III instrument systems offer the latest technologies and features for your custom vehicle. High brightness vacuum fluorescent displays provide a lifetime of trouble free use while offering increased accuracy and features! Full 6 Gauge Instrument System fits into OEM bezel for 1970- 72 Buick Skylark. Fits directly into existing bezel (not included). Specifications Options Expansion Manuals Digital Gauges Speedometer ·0 -255 MPH (optional metric version 0- 255 km/h) Tachometer ·0- 17,500 RPM Oil Pressure ·0- 99 psi Water Temperature ·0- 300ºF (optional metric version 0- 150ºC) Fuel Level ·0- 99% Voltmeter ·8- 17 VDC Standard Colors ·Blue or Teal Digital Message Centers Standard Displays ·Odometer (One time user settable, Million Mile) ·Dual (A/B) Trip Meter (0- 9,999.9) Performance Meters ·0- 60 MPH Timer (0- 100 kmh) ·1/4 mile time ·1/4 mile end speed (trap speed) ·High speed recall ·High RPM recall Gauges ·Speedometer (0- 255 MPH/kmh) opposite scale of main speedometer. Built-in Indicators Indicators ·Turn Signals (Left/ Right) ·High Beam ·Check Engine ·Parking Brake ·Cruise Control (On/ On & Engaged when vehicle is equipped) ·Gear Position (Optional GSS-3000 sensor required) ·4 x 4 (When vehicle is equipped) ·Wait to Start (When vehicle is equipped)
