Pump looks ok, though it is hard to say from just pics. As to the plate, if you have the B&M handy use that. Modifying the one in the pic is ok too. If you can get the stock one from the parts tranny, it would be my preference as long as it is the original GM one and not hard to get at. The GM plates are plain steel, not black or gold like shift kits. There are grooves and notches on the side of the plate on most of them. I will try to get a plc either tomorrow or on saturday. Odd that you have a kit in the trans. Was the trans out a Riviera? The BR code you mentioned is supposed to be from a 401 car, possibly an Electra or Wildcat. Riv was a BT and BU would be a LeSAbre though it would not fit the nailhead. Don't know what is in the NAPA kit. If a strong spring, use just 1 spacer.
It came with a 401 motor I got from the yard about 15 years ago.......I thought it was a lesabre, but it may have been a 'cat.
Mark........I got my '67 parts tranny disassembled this morning (this job sure goes a lot faster the second time around!) p Anyhow.......I noticed it was rebuilt once before, it has new clutches and new low band. One peculiar thing I did notice though........(I'm glad I saved the original VB seperator plate from my other tranny when I put in the B&M)...... the one I just removed from my '67 parts tranny is noticably different. In the photo, (it's the one on the left) notice how it has one hole that's way smaller than the hole in the same spot on the plate from the '66 tranny. I also noticed it has a heavier rear servo spring, it's plain and the other one from the tranny I'm rebuilding is blue. The coils on the plain spring are .010" thicker. In your diagram on the previous page, that would be the hole you have circled in blue......it's called "2-3 DR oil to servo"......this is all starting to make sense to me now. :Smarty: I just wish I could figure out why the tranny I'm rebuilding was toasting the clutches........the seals and the oil pump all look good........maybe I did it when I kept trying to smoke the tires? No matter how hard I tried I could never do that with this trans, that's why I took it out. With the tranny that's in my car now, the brakes can barely hold it back and the tires crack loose instantly. I'd prolly better beef up that mainline pressure with that orange regulator spring and some spacers as you mentioned above......the one in mine is plain. :Brow:
One more thing I noticed......the direct clutch from the '66 tranny had 5 wavy plates......but the '67 tranny only had 1 wavy plate. uzzled: Also, here's how I took the direct clutch apart......it was easy.....check out the hot setup: :Brow:
Joe, I would use the plate that has the larger hole already. Then just enlarge the 1-2 and 2-3 feeds as I mentioned. I prefer the GM plates instead of the shift kits ones. Also use the natural/black servo spring. It will give a bit more firmness to the 1-2 shift. I am guessing the 67 trans is a BT unit as they used the smaller hole and natural spring. Can't say for certain why the clutches burned up in the 66 trans. Could be age or pressure. Make certain the 66 pump is ok, or use the one from the 67 trans. If you do switch pumps, you may need to check the trans end play as that may change when any parts are switched. If you can, use the piston from the 67 trans so that you won't have trouble setting up the clutch clearance. The 66 piston is ok, but will require a more varied mix of thick/thin steel plates to get the clearance correct. Use only flat plates in the direct clutch. All Stage 1 trans' used flat plates in both direct and intermediate clutches. Use only 1 wave plate in the forward clutch. Nice job on the clutch compressor. :TU: Can't say it enough, use only metal rings on the pump and center support. The accumulator rings should also be metal. If good, you can reuse the ones that are there now. I prefer new, but the pre 71 and 71+ rear servo rings do not interchange. Most rebuild kits only include the 71+ ones. So you may have to reuse one of your old rings. By now, you have tranny parts all over the place. :Brow: Mark
I no longer have the '67 pump........I traded it for the '73 Valve Body. ou: I noticed the alluminum sleeve from my pump is scored pretty bad on the outside.....I wonder if that's causing lower pressure? I'm going to get my parts from a local tranny warehouse.......I wonder if they can get those? Maybe they have that orange regulator spring too :Brow:
Might be a good time to explain the differences in the case snap rings, and what happens when the beveled one is put in the wrong place or installed upside down.
:shock: I think I have my parts laid out in good order......but I'm glad you mentioned that. I plan on using my factory manual step by step so I don't screw up.....there's too many parts that could easily be left out. :bglasses:
Luckily have never had a problem with the snap rings. Always put them in place and positioned correctly. Would imagine that would cause breakage of the case tangs. :shock: The chassis manual shows how to install them and should be followed. Joe, The outside scores should not be a problem, make sure the valve in the aluminum sleeve moves freely and does not stick. I like the aluminum valve better than the later steel ones. Larger openings allow quicker changes in pressure (my opinion) than the smaller holes in the steel ones. Didn't realize you swapped the pumps. You should be ok as the clutches were not toasted completely. Am willing to bet the trans just wore out from age.
The bevelled ring holds in the center support and the opening faces the band anchor in the case. I position the ring so that it holds as many of the tangs as possible. Sometime I give both rings a bit of a stretch so that they fit tighter. The flat ring holds the intermediate pressure plate in after the clutches are put in. The opening faces opposite to the band achor and I again position it to fit as many tangs as possible. Supposedly there is a ring from a 200 4R trans that will fit in place of the flat ring and fits tighter into the case. Am not sure what ring it is and don't want to suggest that at this point. Just install the rings per the manual and you should be fine. I don't want to overload you with info at this point as it can be overwhelming. There are later parts that are improved and fit better, but you don't have them at this point and what you have will work fine for what you are doing. So far you are doing Ok. Mark
Since this is sort of a tutorial, I thought it should be mentioned. Someone out there that's never been in a trans is going to try it after this. Joe's doing a great job of teaching.
I spent most of the day washing parts........I ran out of steam, maybe by Monday it'll come back. I'm learning a lot doing this project, so far the hardest part is finding those Raybestos "waffle" clutch plates.........when I asked they acted like I was speaking a foreign language. And the red and blue ones you spoke of cost lots of $$$. Tomorrow or Monday I'm going to look at the kit before I buy it and hopefully it will not have smooth clutches. They also have a 1-1/4" low band to replace my 1" burned one........it looks like it'll fit without a problem. :bglasses:
He sure is. :TU: At this point, he can do mine from now on. :Brow: Great job on the pics and detail. Joe, Wanted to mention that you will likely not get the correct rear seal for your trans in the kit. The early Buick trans' used a smaller diameter seal than the majority of TH400's. You may need to go to a parts store AZ or Advance and order a rear seal for a 65-70 Riviera. That should solve any confusion. I can get a p/n if you need it. Also, the extension housing had a rubber seal originally between it and the case, but will be replaced by a paper one. So, it won't be in the kit as well.
Thanks.......I'm trying. I just hope I don't cause someone to make a mistake. :error: Remember, the proof of the pudding is in the eating........I could be in for some real headaches when it's all done if it won't go into drive ou: :ball:
In my opinion, the band is not a critical part as it is only used when in L2. Look at your original band and you will see that it should have a round anchor that is welded all the way around. Later ones have a flat anchor that is tack welded in 4 spots. Not as strong as the OEM one, but work fine. HD bands should be like the OEM one. Looked at the Advance auto website and they list a kit. It should (key word here) have the waffle plates, but I am not sure. If you want, I can get you the phone number of Metran. It is an old number as I haven't ordered from them in years. Sometimes they get funny and won't ship to individuals. They are/were a major supplier and had all the good parts there. I would order a decent quantity from them and they would do business with me. Am not sure how they are with just one order, but you can try. Last time I ordered the blue plates, they were about $8-10 a piece and you need 13 of them. :eek2: See what you can come up with. Don't worry, am gonna take you through how to air check the clutches to make sure they work before you assemble the trans. Not gonna be any guess work here. You will earn this rebuild. :laugh: Mark
The band from my parts trans is like new........I think I'll use it. Funny thing about Advance......I called them today and they told me they don't list an overhaul kit........but they do list a converter. My bet is that it isn't even a SP unit :laugh: I'll look on their site and find the part number and ask them if they can get it.
Joe, The trick is to look up a 70 Electra. Kit is the same. You will likely be missing one sealing ring that goes on the input shaft down by the forward drum. This ring is for the SP, but I am pretty sure it is the same as one used on a chevy powerglide. I can get you a p/n tomorrow. Most time it is ok and can be reused. Again, the accumulator rings will either be teflon or not in the kit and will need to be either reused or obtained from a trans shop. If you really get stuck, I know I have some here. Half the battle is just getting the good parts.
Not a dumb question. What I have found with AZ and Advance is that most 67 and prior listings are incomplete. A number of times I have found parts available for both my 64 Skylark and 67 GS400 by knowing what interchanges with later models. The 70 Electra is just a later model that I use to find items for the TH400. It just comes up as available and easier for the parts guys (more like computer guys) can find. I also did some searching for rear seal p/n 8625892 and came up with a Rawhide seal #16871 which looks to be correct for your 66 trans. The rebuild kit I come up with is an ATP JM9 which has the frictions and steels. Runs about $110. It doesn't say what plates are in it, so you may have to ask. It also is listed for 71 up as well, so the accumulator rings may not be correct. Also, the p/n for the input shaft SP sealing ring is 8623296. I have to find a book to see if this cross references to the powerglide ring I mentiond.
