New policy in the for sale classifieds- explaination and discussion

Folks,

Due to a recent event, in which a number of us decided it was ok to ignor my past request to not turn for sale ads into commentaries and flame wars, I have been forced to not allow replies to cars or parts for sale ads.

My reasoning for doing this is simple, and complex. This is the simple part.. read on down for the more complex reasoning. This is something I have considered for quite some time here.

Posting to some guy's for sale ad, with negative input regarding the item/car for sale, in the actual ad, is just plain rude. Imagine if you post your car here, and want a "high end" price for it. How would you feel if you had to defend yourself, to the throngs telling you how overpriced it was?

This has in fact, happened a number of times, and the "buzz" in the community last fall was "Don't post your car on V-8, if you want too much for it, they will rip you apart. I overheard that in a group discussion at the nats, and the guy saying didn't know who I was.. so I found it very interesting, and after thinking about it for a while, I asked that we refrain from making comments about a for sale item, in the ad. Largely my request was honored, but I don't expect everyone here to read every post, and remember every little detail about the policies, so this just makes it easier on us all.

Now, I have been accused of being the "thought police" for requesting this, but I think we must have a reading comprehension problem here.. I never said that you can't make a post about an item or car for sale here, I just asked that you do not do it in the thread.. start another thread in the bench. That was plainly clear in my previous request.

I am sure a lot of guys in that last post kind got caught up in the moment, and forgot about our "soft policy" on comments in threads, so I just put a little reminder into that policy.. or more precisely, removed the "reply button".

Now, moderators can still post in the ads, to allow a reminder if an ad poster forgets some inportant info, and the member posting the ad can still reply to it, or delete it.

This allows for the ad poster to let us know if the part has sold, if he has changed the price ect..

Also, if, as the seller, you get a PM from someone with a legitimate question, and want to share the question and answer with the group, it's as simple as cutting and pasting the question into a reply for the ad, and then answering it.

What I have basically done is handed the ability to moderate your ad, to you. If you want to sell the item, then you will be pro-active on answering questions, and adding pertinant info to the ad, as it comes up. It will take a little more effort on your part, but I think the good outweights the bad, in this instance.

Now, if any of you can reason to me, why you should be able to rip one of our members apart for asking too much for his car,with a reply in his ad vs. posting a new topic about it, then I'm all ears.

And as you know, you would have to be pretty delicate in any such conversation, as personal attacks are not permitted on the board here.

We are going to try it this way for a while, and see how it works.. my other option was to temporarily suspend the posting privaledges of each and every member who posted in the recent car for sale ad, and that seems a little harsh.

I did say in the previous request that members who ignored the request were subject to disciplinary action.

And if your not going to put teeth into policies, then why make them?..

Heck, then we would be just like the United Nations.. :laugh:

JW

 

Here's the best thing that happens when someone puts a insanely high price on a car or part: it get's NO replies! We've all seen it; that beautiful Stage 1 or the impossible to find part...NO replies! Seeing a 0 Replies and 632 VIEWS says all there is to say!

 

It is sad that we had to go to such extremes. We are all adults, but a few that desire to act like children have to ruin so much for the rest of us.

I personally liked the ability to be able to jump into a thread when a part is being looked for that I could use as well, especially when I saw 2 of the being offered. And vice versa when a part was being sold that more than one needed. Sure, I could post a new thread, but that may have been done 3 months ago with no replies, and now a few people have them to sell. But now I would not know that there are multiple offers, as those who are able to offer a wanted part, will not be able to post a reply and for me to see and extra availability.

Cutting off communication is a sad option to have to end up doing. Jim, I could imagine that it took a lot to come to this decision, and it was not an easy one to make. I can understand that it must have been another over the edge thread. Although I apparently did not see or follow what caused this to happen. I am a firm believer in personal accountability, and hope those offenders have been truely informed of thier behavior causing actions taken. Hopefully they are reading this and realizing how childish they must have been to come to this. And then again, if they didn't get it already, maybe they never will.

:Smarty: :spank: :af: o No: ou: :Comp:

Pretty much sums up all of my feelings,
Mike

 

Jim,

BS. This isn't the BPG board. Maybe there you have a stronger case to lay the law to this extreme. Yes I am a member of the BPG. If I post too high a price, feel free to rip me to shreds. No sleep will be lost here. Half the time it highlights the ignorance of the person griping.

Why whould you want to make E-bay the better option?

Of course, nothing personal here... You maintain the place, do what you want.

--John

 

Swell.

Here comes the $2000.00 blown-up short blocks and $30,000 rebodied "rarities" postings with no checks and balances. I'm glad I'm poor or I'd likely get ripped off.

I hate lawyers.

 

If the purpose of this policy is to reduce negative criticism of prices or quality of the goods for sale, what's the point of allowing a separate thread to do it? I think we're losing more here than we're gaining if criticism is being allowed, but constructive activity on the for sale thread is being banned. It will be more difficult to make an offer you know they got.

There are other benefits having sales offers in a public forum on the thread. You have an idea what offers were already made so not to waste your time, or if you go ahead anyway you know where you stand in line. Clarifyng parts application info coming in from other members, opportunities that some people exercised to ask others to go for an inspection, etc. I suppose you could tie it all together with new threads and links back to the ads, but it's more complicated and we end up right in the same place.

This seems to have been triggered by two recent "high priced" sales offers by two new members that had under ten posts each. The parts forum says right on it "Please no $700 overflow bottles..." One of the benefits of the site is that most goods are offered are at reasonable prices because most members are knowledgable and that's what's expected. If top price sellers don't like it, I'd rather see them using other sites to advertise on than have the V8 Board change the rules to make it easier to do it here. That's my .02.

This is a great site, and I truely appreciate all your efforts to keep it that way.

 

Guys,

This has nothing at all to do with shielding sellers that want too much for a particular product.. nothing at all.

As Mike pointed out, everyone is free to go and create another thread, and discuss the car or part in detail, as long as they don't get into personal attacks on the seller.

I disagree that this will make it harder to finalize a transaction, since right now, the vast majority of transactions are finalized thru PM's or email, not in the ad. How many times have you seen "you have a PM" under the first post.

Yes, you will lose that ability to tell the guy you sent him a PM, but I think most of the guys here are smart enough to figure out the PM system, and you as an interested party, need to be persistant, until you get an answer.

We are all smart enough to know when something is ridiculously priced, and if your not sure.. then ASK... in the bench.

Post the link to the for sale ad, and ask.. "is this worth that"?

I have no interest in trying to manipulate the marketplace to inflate prices. Anyone who thinks that, forgets I build GS's for a living, and the ever increasing parts prices make it harder than ever to do that. So if I was on any side, it would be for more reasonable prices on parts. As far as cars go, they are worth whatever somebody wants to pay for them, and that is a self-regulating marketplace. As long as you guys don't want to pay 25K for a rust bucket, none will be sold at that price.

One of the intents here is to keep these threads from turning into flame wars, and they always do. We are better than that, in general, and most of us have enough tact to just shake our head and move on when we see something with some stupid price on it. And those among us who don't possess the tact to not piss on someones for sale ad, regrettably have to have that tack legislated to them.

I just can't sit here, and watch us turn our community into the group of fools and loudmouths, that I see on other sites. No one here has quite crossed that line yet, but we were getting closer to it every day.

This is something I did not want to do, but not letting guys act like idiots is no where near what's at the root of my reasoning.. while that issue is important to me, there is something much more important at stake here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Look deeper into the issue... I am afraid some of us can't see the forest, for the trees..

Ok, so we go back to letting everyone rip into members for asking too much for something... the "word" gets out (and it has already started) that "You don't want to sell you car/parts on V8 Buick.com, because they will rip it apart." So what happens then?... everyone goes to ebay, and folks get caught up over there, and pay way too much for stuff. The "accepted price" for an item goes up, and no one posts here.. except to bitch about the price of something on ebay.

I am taking a practical stance toward trying to slow down that trend. Instead of sitting here wringing my hands. Encourage folks to sell something on V8 Buick, instead of having to deal with the hassels of ebay. It's free here, they have a focused audience, and they can sell the part cheaper, and yet still see as much money as if they would have gotten more for it on ebay, but paid the fees. And spent way too much time trying to sell it. We have feedback forums in place to help protect our buyers from shady sellers, all we need to do is encourage the folks to list the part here.

Buyers don't have to search thru endless "GS Key Fob" ads, to find some decent parts.

Good for everyone.

Add another issue to the mix....

It has not always been about the price either.. alot of times it's about the vehicle in question. "This is wrong, that's wrong ect..." If you know how many times I have sat here and read someone say "well, that's not right" when I know for a fact that it is possible the car was factory equipped that way, but just bite my lip so I don't make someone look bad, you would more fully understand my reasoning. I see all kinds of goofy stuff, and learn more and more, with each car that gets built in the shop. I have occasionally tried to caution folks about "absolutes" in factory built cars. I see lots of exceptions to "rules", which have been commonly accepted, but are based on incomplete, or sometimes just plain wrong, information.

Some are assuming that I have stated that no discussion can take place about a part.... but that's just not the case. Feel free to talk about prices all you want.. just don't do it in the guy's thread. Just avoid the flame wars, and act like the "class" guys we are. I am afraid that a keyboard and the comfy surrounds of your den, make a lot of guys get into some real silly arguments, and make themselves look the fool.

I want is for us to act like the "cut above" we claim to be. Go look at other sites, and you will see some pretty stupid behavor, by "adults" and that was never the intent of having a classified section on this board.

I am aware of the members we have, whose only intent is to sell something for profit, and are not really part of the community here. I tolerate these folks, only because they may at some point in time, give a lead to a member that may turn out to be a good deal. They are most certainly not the reason for this new policy, this has been something I had considered for some time now.

JW

 

This my 2 on the subject,God I hope I won't get unplugged. I think if a part is on the board razor off , no riping. Same for cars. Question about the part, before pm's are sent so others can see,yea! Seller is also needs to come back and post sold. As far as car's and parts on E-bay or anywhere else open game. We have some NEW buick enthustist who don't know the difference in good part bad part or car. But to attack a seller that is bad forum.

 

I think the point that Jim is trying to make is that if you don't like a price for something (price,condition,etc)then don't slam them for it.We mostly have been here awhile and know what prices are but to some new members,it may not be that obvious.I have seen a few threads that the situation has gotten out of hand.If I see any thing overpriced,I usually just pass on by and keep it to myself.
This is the real reason Dustin and I decided last year to put the NOS 71 GS grille on Ebay.There was a big cash outlay for the purchase of the cars in the deal with the grille and we talked it over to see if it would be best to keep it for one of our cars or sell it and recoup some money,We decided the latter.I knew that if we posted it here for $2000 we would be asked to take it off due to the board rules.I have absolutely NO problem with that since the guidelines were laid out.Even though that part is a tough part to locate and was worth it,it just didn't seem right to post it just to hear the bitching.In the end,it sold for over $2K and is now on a fully restored 71 Stage 1.It didn't take long for a few members to locate it on EBAY,so it was posted on here anyways.The bad part to these cars is the ever increasing cost of parts and the availability of them.I have had GS cars since 1984 when I first got one and have seen the $129 radiator support go to $1000,or the NOS 70 grilles the same.It is only going to get worse and people are always going to try to get the top dollar.Sad,but true.Jim has a fine line to follow and since this is his place we all like to visit,we must follow the rules.Even if we don't always agree with it.He has my support.
Pat

 

I'm carrying the flag this far and now I'm done. I support Jim's rights to make a decision.

I'm just sorry to see that we can't reply to a for sale ad in any way whatsoever anymore, just in case it's negative. That's all.

Long live the V8 Board. And grow stonger.

 

If you're looking for feedback, I would leave well enough alone. As it was said we are all adults here. I think the posting allows you to comment if you have contacted the seller and are "first in line" on a part or car. Many times there is much interest in a single item and posting allows all to see who showed interest first.

Regards,

Eric

 

I think that this change is misguided and higly illogical at best, and also somewhat detrimental to two of the main purposes of the board -- sharing knowledge and helping fellow Buick people.

Example: Dude posts a part -- says it's from a 1968 to 1972 GS. Actually, it's from a 1969 GS, no interchange to other years. So maybe chinamike or Yardley or somebody knows that, but he has to pm the seller and start a new thread to let us all know? Gosh, I probably wouldn't bother with the new thread myself.

And even if a new thread was posted, you have to rely on people finding it and relating it to the original post.

Which then frees the poster to not bother adding the correct information -- kinda like E-Bay! And just that feature of E-bay -- no way to force a misguided or unethical seller to correct something incorrect -- seems to chafe people on this board to no end, from what I've seen.

Plus, some guy who wants that part but doesn't know that the description is incorrect then won't know better, or have the benefit of the knowledge of everyone on the board.

Finally, (Not that I do) I can flame someone far worse via PM or e-mail than I ever could in a board-posted response. Which is probably where the worst negative-comments occur.

So in this example, what is the possible benefit of the new policy? It does away with all the postive aspects of posting responses, while preserving all the most negative aspects of the posting process.

Wouldn't it just be more realistic to warn negative posters and ban them if they keep it up? A little more work for the moderators, but a lot more logical, isn't it?

-- Steve

 

I was thinking the same thing.......maybe new members should be given their own seperate 'for sale' section? Seasoned members tend to be more realistic. Dumb idea? o No:

 

I agree with Mike.

 

Jim

FWIW, I think you did the right thing. You posted the rules; you posted a warning; three strikes. Folks gotta pay if they break the rules. Yeah, its wrong that all suffer cuz of a few ijits; but its wrong to break the rules, too.

Policing a BB as huge and successful as this one is tough. Especially when it comes to something as emotional as muscle cars. I do NOT envy you your task. You are doing a great job -- keep it up.

Good call -- stick by your guns.

Craig

 

qoute: what is the possible benefit ? the benefit is that sellers will be more likely to post parts for sale here if they know their thread wont become a flamefest by those who dont like the price. people could start another thread to do just that, but that doesnt seem so likely.

the self appointed experts ruined many a sellers threads, and people ignored the sticky threads requesting they dont comment on the for sale thread, so something needed to be done. there are good people on this board who are discouraged from listing parts here because of the naysayers.

if an item doesnt sell, the poster should at some point realize he needs to drop the price. no need to rip them apart for trying to get what some consider to be top dollar.

henry

 

Wow
I have to <b>respectfully</b> disagree with your decision Jim.
I love this place and will continue to come here regardless. But I see many more con's than pro's to this decision. I feel we need the ability to post in ads for many GOOD reasons that help the sellers and buyers alike.

Wouldn't it make more sense to <b>STRICTLY</b> enforce the existing rules?
If any mod see's a post in an ad that doesn't fit the rules, they should delete the content of the post immediately and send a PM to the poster warning them of their actions.

There's many more "good" and "constructive" posts in ads than there are bad ones. I feel we are punishing everyone for the actions of a few. This new arrangement will be "clunky" at best, when it comes to trying to sort out each ad and how it stands currently. Seems like alot of extra work for the mods too.

o No:

 

Well Jim I'm with you on this one. When I see something overpriced in a newspaper or a magazine, I don't call the guy to tell him he's way off base. If I want a million dollars for my Riv, well then that's what I want and I don't need people telling me its overpriced. Is there a way to set it so that the orignal poster can decide if he/she wants replies? I imagine that people will just PM the "Are you Nuts?!" replies now. It's too bad it has to be done but I understand why it has been.

 

I just wanna know how much that damn RH mirror sold for....i'm real tired of the "don't know what this fits" crap....especially on a MIRROR.
Peace WildBill

P.S. i think all for sale posts should be screened by the moderator for a price before the post is allowed......

 

Thanks WildBill. If that happened then maybe we wouldn't be in this thread in the first place.