I talked to G. Gessler today. We talked about the various combos and it was his general conclusion that, for my setup, I could probably have a ported Performer in place of my SP1 with no ill effects, i.e. no loss in HP as I don't rev my engine past 6000 rpm. He said he would be surprised if I lost any more than 10 HP. I'm seriously considering going with a ported/matched Performer with the Edelbrock/Performer being milled off and area blended to match the rest of the intake. I think most would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a stock intake and that. Then maybe go to a Street Avenger 870 carb with electric choke. If I can keep my quarter mile times under 12.00 and look more stock and be under the stock hood, with my a/c, I'm all for that. This really is a learning experience with these cars. It never stops.
Phil, Do not, under any circustances, put that Holley carb on.. Trust me on this.. Been there, done that. Stick with your Q-jet. JW
Jim, don't have a q-jet. Right now I have a Holley 950HP. I do like it, but I'm looking for something with a choke. I guess either kind will do, I've just heard great things about electric chokes. Can you recommend another carb? I know J. Osborne sells 'em. I also saw the Jet and Edelbrock versions at Summit/Jegs. Up to 850 cfm.
Working with an Edelbrock 850 Q-jet now, on a new motor build, and then install in the car, I will give you some feed back in a couple weeks. JW
Ok, so I understand the difference between the Performer/B4B and SP1, but how does the S-divider do against those manifolds?
OK, so a ported iron wouldn't be all that great either...how streetable is the SP1? Would you recommend one for a daily driver that rarely sees 5000rpm?
I drive my car around with a SP1 now. There is nothing wrong with it on the street. My car has Poston's 113A cam, which is very similar to T/A's 413. Car idles at about 750 in gear with just a moderate to good idle, but definitely not a tooth rattler. The whole point of the SP1 is making good power in the higher rpm's. This is why I'm considering a change. I do most of my driving around on the street and only go to the track a couple of times a year, and then just for fun at the Norwalk and now Salem events. And to really get the air in there you kind of need to have a Stage 2 scoop. I'm looking to put the stock ram air hood and air cleaner back on my car and reconnect the a/c. That would be tough to do with the SP1. My big concern is I don't want to give up much, if any, of my performance. I've talked to Greg Gessler and John Osborne. Between the two of them, it sounds like I'll be giving up between .1 and .2 in the quarter mile switching to a worked over Performer and 800 q-jet. I hate to sound greedy, but I don't want to have to do that. I've got to find another way aorund all this without it getting really expensive to add cubes or go to nitrous. So if your car is rarely, if ever, going to go above 5000 rpm, I'd stick with the Performer intake, maybe have Gessler do some work on it for a couple extra HP. Just my $.02.
Phil, I can understand you wanting to stay with the look of a stock GS hood.I am using a Performer with a 950 Holley (by Bigs).The performer is modified a bit(port-matched,the divider cut down some,the carb flange area cut away a bit to accomodate the Holley,the runners smoothed shape-wise,and of course "Edelbrock" ground off and painted red).I am using ported Stage 2 heads also painted red.The motor dynos about 520 hp which is good enough for me.For the uninitiated it still looks very stock which is the look I was after.I am also going to "go against the grain" and install a 3.08 12 bolt and get rid of the 3.64 rear in it now.With the SP tranny I don't think I will be giving up too much.We are always trying to have it all-lots of acceleration and a decent cruise.Human nature! To sum up,I am happy with the "little" dual-plane intake even if I am giving up 20+ HP. Rod
Yea, Gessler talked about doing a port match, cleaning up the runners, milling down the center divider, but just in the back for the secondaries if I go with a q-jet. I guess selling my ported/Stage 1 valve 430 heads and getting the aluminum SE heads from T/A would give me back my HP loss. Then again I could also get a GearVendor's overdrive unit and have my "6" speed tranny. Too many choices, not enough money. Let's see, for about $4K I could do everything. I wonder what the wife would have to say????? :rant: :Smarty: :spank: With my current setup, I can use the stock hood and a drop-base air cleaner with 3" element and no spacer. It does fit, barely. Maybe I could just swap out the hoods when I want to come to Norwalk/Salem. I must be nuts!! I've been tossing around various ideas for over a month now. The GearVendor's unit would solve two of my three problems. Go a little quicker, supposidly, and ride at a lower rpm down the highway. DeskTop Dyno says I'll go .1 quicker shifting 1,2,2OD,3. I can't decide what to do.
You know guys, I really don't have any idea why everyone seems to be praising edelbrock for introducing an intake manifold that is what? over 30 year old design. I would say we should not buy the things. They would have done us a much better service if they would introduce an rpm performer series manifold for the Buick. Why reward them them for reintroducing a 30 year old part? The only way to make our feelings known to them is to make it affect their bottom line. After all, it was Vic Edelbrock jr that told me back in the 90's that if he never sold another Buick intake ever, it would not effect him in any way. So now we are going to praise him for reintroducing a dinosaur intake manifold? Thanks Vic, whatta guy you are. Jim Burek P.A.E ENTERPRISES
I've read some of you say you can use your stock air cleaner with your b4b. I have 2 of the old ones. With my air cleaner in place without the foam seals and the scoops and the under side plates not installed. My hood when shut will push down on the front of the air cleaner. I broke 1 air cleaner running it on the car. Whats your secret.
I'll third that! Yeah, I'll third that. We have a 69' 400 with the performer and the hood pushes down on the seals, straining the main unit. Also there is about 1/2'' of space between the support and the cleaner. I'm thinking about goung to an open element, but which one fits and looks the best on a buick engine? Moroso,Edelbrock,K/N.other??? Or is there another solution? Just wondering! Thad Seybert ___________________________ 69' GS 400 Hdt. 68' GTO 400 conv.
The Performer will line the seals up correctly with the seal plates, but you have to trim down the seals a little, to keep from putting too much pressure on the assembly. On a 70-72.. never done one on a 69, but since my 68 has a '9 hood on it, I will find out.. someday.. when I get chance to do that car. The B4B has the carb pad farther back, and the front of the seals will be in the grills of the scoops.. always were, always will be. JW
Sooo, when I step up to TA's Stage 2SE by Gessler my ported B4B wont be able to cut it... :ball: My wife is going to divorce me... :laugh: ou: :laugh: ou: Michael
