Question: What good is the Poston Girdled Oil Pan if one thinks it doesn't help block integrity or is as good as a TA girdle? Answer: When you throw a rod it may keep you from oiling down the track... For being a "newbie" to buick V8s I've had great success (10.72 all steel, stage 1 iron head first attempt at a race car) as well as some serious failures that are very close to sending me back to focusing back on my hairdryer (87 GN). Today was one of my not-so-good days. Today I went to test a larger tire as well as the addition of a stage2 scoop on my combo.... I cut a .019 light as well as beat a 67 CHEVY powered Buick. I went through the traps with an 11.27 at 116... and Kaboom... If it were not for the Pan I would have probably oiled the rear tires with serious consequences. I threw #7. Wrecked #8 and cracked the bottom end of the cylinder wall. ****I am now in the market for a mid 10 sec capable short block for any of you considering upgrading....( hint hint, Gary K, Gary P, Dennis H, John Z) Thanks for sharing in my sorrow/frustration. I've managed to now destroy two blocks within a 12 month duration all while "tuning".... ou: John
Hi, Sorry to see all the extra steel in the pan. I am wondering if you are the one I sold my Poston pan to a while back, I seem to remember your name, If you got the pan from me I am glad it kept the car off the guard rail or its roof. Tom
Hey Tom. >>No I didn't buy the pan from you. We briefly spoke at the Samanatha Rix race I think. The pan did an incredible job keeping things together. >>>Doesn't make things feel all that much better though... Where's the new block at? :rant: uzzled:
Wow John, sorry to hear about your blow up. You are right, it coud have been a lot worse, oil all over the place at speed is not a good thing. Looks like that pan served double duty there and is probably ok to live another day as well. Looks like you had a simple rod failure, possibly caused by an oil situation, can't tell if the piece of rod is dark colored or not, if it is, it was an oil staration problem. Jim Burek
This post is leaning me toward that Poston pan. I have no doubt that it is not as strong as the full girdle or even the halo girdle...but, it would certainly add SOME strength to the lower end...right. o No: ...It is, after all, the same basic idea behind TA's rear-end girdles....right. Does anyone know if Poston's girdled OR non-girdled pans would be compatable with a halo girdle? Or is one of Stef's pans the only option? o No:
It's looking like I spun and seized the bearing, therby breaking the rod. Number 8 was on it's way out to. It was oil starved/dark colored. The plan was to drop the pan and check the #7 and #8 bearings prior to Morocco this weekend. I guess I should have checked earlier... I kick myself primarily because doing so is one of the great qualities of the pan. Once I pull the motor I'll check the rest of the bearings for signs of excessive wear. This attempt at doing things myself rewarded me 50+ passes within in the 10 second range. No evidence of things going South prior. Oil never had any shavings or copper colored flaking that I could see. Last week after changing the cam I pulled off a couple 10.90's and called it good... The pan is not salvagable. The broken rod pushed out both sides of the upper pan as well as taking out the cylinder, the crank, and two pistons. Prior to this setback I was still ahead from a shadetree $$$$ perspective vs. going the crate/custom/professional Buick motor route. I have since been humbled. The question I have to grapple with is do I a rebuild to my current combo specs as salvagable parts (a high mid 10 motor)? Do I invest into a faster combo (chassis and motor)? Do I sit and wait patiently for the new block to come out... ??
Sorry to hear of your kaboom. I have seen broken rods take out a TA block girdle also, I think the Poston or Burek pan is a very good part. I am somewhere in the 3-400 pass range with my engine with no problem other than a head gasket failure in the same power range as yours. The key to these things living is light parts, good oil and lower RPM, I don't really see a need for the block girdle at this power level. I will be pulling my motor after Cecil county race this year for a freshen up for next year, I plan no big changes. I think this is the best power level to stay in with the 455 block for longevity at an economical price, go much past this level and you will pay the cost and reliability will suffer. There will be some used parts coming available soon as the season is coming to an end, pick up some of these parts and rebuild to your current power level or just a bit more and you should be fairly happy. Let me know if I can help you in any way, I will be at Morocco this weekend.
John, Sorry to hear about the Kaboom. Keep in mind when you put another engine back in your car that changing rear gear or tire diameter can add extreme loads to your engine. Here is an analogy.... Your riding your ten speed bike around the neighborhood. The first time you take off the bike is in first gear and you are able to take off easily. No stress what-so-ever on your legs. Now you pedal the bike and shift into 10th gear. You stop and try to take off again while the bike is still in 10th gear. It about kills your legs to get the bike moving. Well... the same thing happens to your engine. The taller tire made the engine grunt more and could have been partial cause of your engine failure. The key is to find that happy medium point. Right about now I wish I had an extra engine sitting around that I could sell to you but I am out of them. Good Luck in your search. If you want to design a nice engine then contact me to talk about it. Later
John, Ahhh... Gary Kubisch encouraged me to move up to the 30". It's all his fault. Now I feel better. Thanks More seriously -- your theory make sense. The new cam pulled stronger and got me into 6000 RPM range way quicker than my previous (testing with the 28" tire). I was between 6300 and 6400 going through the traps at about 122 MPH (10.92 ET) last week. I figured the 30" would help rollout, increase MPH and decrease RPM. I never shifted later than 6300 RPM. >>Still shouldn't have done what it did. Things must have been on their way out and these changes may have sealed my fate. I'll never know what it was turning through the traps. I was focused squarely on oil pressure (made changes because of previous dist gear issues) as well as fuel pressure and not watching the tach. >>Never bothered to set the playback tach either. Thanks too for the offer on designing a motor. I've got plenty to think about. John
Sorry for the misfortune of blowing that engine. For those of us that don't know, and I'm interested because of the power levels involved-what the hell does this sound like as it happens? I mean other than "not good"! Christopher
Sorry to hear this I had the same cam gear issue and i'm going racing this weekend (if the rain lets me) and i have had the worst luck ever Hope you get it back together on the up side you can make it faster :TU:
I know I am going to jinks myself by saying this but I have never had a problem with dist or cam gear. The same dist gear and cam have been in my motor since about 1996 I think. I do at each rebuild coat the cam gear and dist gear with cam lobe lube when I put it together. I run stock size gears with a booster plate and a white spring with 10-30 mobile1. I have the oil passage from pump to lifter passage drilled to 7/16" and all the passages are made bigger and corners are rounded "ported" I guess you could say in the oil pump cover. I don't have a guage in the back of my block but have about 70 psi at 5800 rpm in the lights at the stock oil sending hole. I also run a K-N filter with the bypass pluged in pump cover. I am also real careful to just let motor idle till it is good and warmed up before winding it up. I am sure I am not doing anything different than others but I must just be lucky so far with my 455, I have never even had a cam bearing go out yet and I still run the basic clevite cam bearings with oil groves cut in the block so I can turn the oil holes to the right place and get more oil to the lifters on the driver side. I hope just because I said this it don't blow up in my face this sunday :laugh: Tom
John, I am a believer of a quality oil pan also. Last fall I had a crank break at the 1000' mark in Noble OK. The TA oil pan did its job and kept everything from being flung all over the track. My stage2 motor under construction allready has had a new one ordered for it. I look at it as a one time premium insurance policy.
Poston Girdled pan..... Someone correct me if I'm wrong or if they've updated the pan but if I remeber right the Poston GIRDLED pan has drain back problems. Maybe as the motor started to loosen up a little, it pumped more oil out of the pan that couldn't get back. THe pan could be modified to get more oil back to the pickup in the pan and I've heard of it being done. Sorry about your motor. They sure ain't free.
I had a Poston pan I bought used and it had been modified to let oil get to the sump better, it looked to me someone put it on a bridgeport and cut a slot in the bottom center of the ribs that cross the pan so oil could get through instead of having to go over them. It seemed a little odd to me that there was not a hole of some kind there for the oil, unless there is and someone made them larger, like I said the pan was used when I got it so I don't know what a new one looks like inside. I like the pan but to bad it was not made to use some kind of windage screen in it. Maybe there in not enough room to make the pan deep enough to fit a screen and also clear the car frame. Rick, that 123 mph in the 1/8th mile freaks me out every time I see it. Have you ever run 1/4 mile? or is it geared to low to do that or is it just to far to push the motor like it is set up? Tom
parts for sale John, I sold my regal but have some good engine parts you may be interested in. 30 over 455 block, crower rods, ross 12.5 to 1 pistons, stage 1 heads, headers, valve covers, t/a intake, poston oil pan with girdle, sfi flywheel, mini strarter, mazier electric water pump,turbo 400 with trans brake and NEW ati converter 4000 stall, adjustable oil pump by-pass, roller rockers, chrome moly pushrods, and Im sure some more stuff Im forgetting. Im in Downers Grove so Im pretty close. If you have any questions you can e-mail me at joeatjandc@aol.com or call me at 630-968-9827. Thanks. Joe.
