Is the Buick 455 a weak engine?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear this at Olds sites, too. I see people selling Olds and Buick girdles that you won't find under a crappy iron Chevy.

Don't feel bad, the Olds guys have to be reminded that when Olds built NASCAR blocks instead of old man blocks, they included four bolt mains. And any aftermarket block for Buick would be crucified if it didn't have some extra fasteners to hold the bottom end together.

 

I run and have built 401/425 and 430/455 engines and prefer the nailhead-but I'm not blasting down the quarter mile anymore either. The 455 is ok if done just right-trouble is there are too many builders out there that get it just wrong. In hindsight, I wish Buick had just redesigned the head!

 

Most chevy big blocks are not 4 bolt main. These where in the "Hi-per-pass" motors. 375hp 396 or LS6 454. Most average street or bracket chevy is a 2 bolt motor and do just fine at 7000. My best friends 65 SS is a mid 9 roller motor chevy bracket car and its a 2 bolt block. We do run a steel crank but they seem to develop cracks after a couple seasons. The old cast crank never seemed to have a problem.

I can never remember having to change a buick crank for any reason. Even after hundreds of passes. By far the best factory crank going.

 

Check out the recent thread here on 12 sec combos

 

iron heads

Rollerball, if i were you for the power your looking for you could buy a good used set of iron stage 1 heads off someone from this board thats going with aluminum heads, but if you want new heads id go with T/A stage 1 SE. Heads. as for the oiling mods a stock front cover is fine as long as its not all chewed up, stock rods ARP Bolts stock main bolts are fine your not going to break a 1/2 " bolt, trw pistons are fine to, if you can get a B4B intake thats what i would run. and i dont think youll need roller rockers with that cam im in the middle of making a rocker shaft girdle for stock rockers and shafts cuz im getting sick of changing my buddys rocker shafts after he breaks them 3rd time all ready as soon as there done i will post pic and i will get a price together for them. to bad your so far away i could put that car in the low 12ss for cheap money. later john and by the way 9.57 @ 139 IRON STAGE 1 HEADS 469ci 3250 #s

 

Again the question: Why the stage 1-heads and not the stage 2-heads? Do they have smaller valves and passages for higher low-rev-velocity? What do i lose in the topend? I have to buy new headers anyway and i thought thtis was the main reason to get stage-1-heads???

 

"Standard' header size is 1 7/8" for the primary tubes on a Stage 1 ,,,,,,,,,,, plenty big for well over 500 hp. Stage 2 header primaries run 2 1/8" - 2 1/4" that moves the torque to higher rpm. What gears and converter do you want to run? A/C? Which ever you choose, match it all together.

 

heads

I'd say go with the stage 2 heads more room to grow later,we all started with low goals for power and then the old story you have to have more power.you can get 2 inch primarys for the stage2 or even a 1 7/8 shorty if you are worried about spinning it.

 

@standup: Thats what i was thinking too....

 

THIS is why you should go with Stage 1 heads and NOT Stage 2s

Sure, buying Stage 2 heads now gives you "room to grow" should you decide you need to go faster, but if that is the mentality, you need to build the bottom end of the engine with "room to grow," and add stuff like bigger heads and cam later. Starting with overkill on heads is backwards, and will yield a mis-matched combination.

 

either or will work fine

I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between stage 1's and 2's. same exact intake port, and the 2's have a much better exhaust port.

You won't loose any low end torque with the stage 2's. I had JW build me a motor for my riviera with the stage 2's, because I got a great deal on a new set through TA. I don't have the dyno sheet with me, so I'm going of memory. with a dual plain intake, and a mild cam (234 at .050), and a holley 950, it made 540 hp and 560 pounds of torque. I belive peak torque was at 4200 rpm, and it was over 500 ft lbs anywhere over 3000 rpm. If I remeber it was over 500 ft lbs of torque anywhere between 3000 and 5700 rpm (again, going off of memory).

My point is, I wouldn't worry about a mis-match with components. The intake side is exactly the same, and improving the exhaust side is a good thing, so it's not going to hurt anything. Go with what you can get a better deal on. TA sometimes runs great specials on the stage 2 stuff. Either or will serve you well.

Brett

 

What type of converter did you run with that cam? Stock? How did it pull from idle?

I always thought the stage 1-heads were sort of "downgraded" stage-2-heads with a smaller exhaust to make normal headers fit. I thought this was a solution for people on a budget that didnt want to spend the money for new headers. Since i have to buy headers anyway i wanted to get the stage 2-heads.

Maybe somedbody from T/A reads this and can comment on stage1- vs. stage2-heads for a streetengine??

 

I always thought the stage 1-heads were sort of "downgraded" stage-2-heads with a smaller exhaust to make normal headers fit.

close but kind of backwards. the Stage 1 was the production head and stock exhaust manifolds would bolt up. all Stage 1's came from the factory with manifolds.

because of the way they cut the head to remove the exhaust dogleg in a Stage 2 head a manifold will not fit so headers are required. there were several factory Stage 2 test mules but the parts and entire package were only available as special order parts.

http://www.taperformance.com/stage2.htm

they haven't got dyno charts with the heads so you can't see how much / if the TQ peak moved up in the RPM band. that's the only thing i'd be concerned about. considering the TQ gain over Stg1's / stock heads i don't think i'd be too worried about it.

http://www.taperformance.com/Cylinder.htm

click on the specific head page for each model, they do a pretty good job of describing the applications.

 

heh, lookie here. JW has a thread about a 'low comp' Stage 2 SE head buildup: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=114178

does that answer any of your questions?

 

stage 2 heads are not high rpm big power only Nicolas they are very versatile so they would be a one time and your done kind of purchase.the headers fit easier everything else swaps from the iron stuff etc etc.I only speak from exp. i started with an iron headed mild combo running high 12's fourteen years ago and every year spent more and more on parts to go 11's then high 10's then finally 9's. I will say best bang for power is the good heads period.

 

I will withdraw my argument. I guess I'm just old fashioned. I still think of Stage 2 heads as "exotic." (When I started playing with Buicks they WERE exotic, iron, and very rare...)

 

OK, then i think i will get the stage-2-heads. But first i have to buy the car....i will buy a 1972 GS 455 next week. I will post pictures as soon as i have it. :grin:

 

Excellent choice! :TU:

 

Well rollerball, I have the Car Craft engine in my car, the one that was in the mag, and can say that in a 3500 lb car on street tires, it ran a 12.35 @ 111 on my 7th pass, never being at the track before, so its definetly NOT a weak engine.

 

My Skylark ran 11.70's @ 116 with stock rods & crank. I used to drive the car to the track(30 miles one way) race & drive home. So, as far as Buicks being weak, I disagree. I know a guy that drove 800 plus miles(upstate N.Y.) to Bowling Green KY. Raced his 4900 Lb Estate Wagon(low 13's). and came back home with no problems. :TU: