Alan I believe chris' situation is a little different then most. He is there to instruct and teach more so than do the work. There are some bad points about a union for sure. But anyone who believes that corporate greed is no longer an issue is looking through rose colored glasses. Do I share all of the views of the UAW, not really but I have been on the other side of the fence and it was not pretty either. I worked for a non-union company for ten years before I got hired at GM. The things that I saw during that time made me sick. We don't even have to get envolved with the personnel side of it. The safety issues alone were just plain horrible. Oh sure we had OSHA on our side but do you think any safety violation ever got resolved through them. Never, the company would maybe pay a small fine but the next day it was right back to the unsafe practice. Wether it be working near sulfuric acid mist or working around a piece of equipment that is not locked out. Yeah, you can make a stink about it and refuse to do it and if you were lucky enough to keep your job you would be "labeled" as a trouble maker and your life would be a living hell everytime you walked in the door and punched your time card. Been there, done that. Sometimes unions are a necessary evil as some would put it. Are all companies like the one that I used to work at, probably not but there are plenty of them out there and without the workers having some voice without the fear of corporate retaliation unions are still needed. And as far as "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay" I believe in that too. Just because you belong to a union doesn't make you lazy. I'll bet I work just as hard as my non-union Buick loving buddies on this board. Oh by the way, Chris is non-union and he doesn't do squat all day.:TU: Just kiddin Chris.
I notice that most all of the posts are during the day, working hours. Remember, when you point your finger, THREE of them point back at yourself! Quit playing on the web, and start WORKING! ou: :moonu:
I have been careful to read all these posts and try to be sympathetic to what is being expressed and felt by them. In the past, some of my opinions have been criticised by other posters who have (extremely) strong Republican views. Now, I just can't help but note that I have a safe, high-paying government job, as part of a union shop. And, I have ALWAYS voted the straight Democratic ticket. Remember, it was Reagan and Bush I who kept demanding "free trade" as a solution to all the world's problems. W. may wear cowboy boots, but he thinks with the rich boys, not with us. Sorry to bring in my partisan political views....and I know many of you are hurting....but....folks like me told you so.
They're all in it I'm strictly unaffiliated, but can't recall when I last voted for a democrat for president. I think it was Carter. :Brow: Anyway, here is some lifted text from an NPR broadcast: "President Bill Clinton is finally getting ready to launch his campaign to win congressional approval of the North American Free Trade Agreement, NAFTA. White House sources say they're trying to get all five living ex-presidents to come to a high- profile unveiling of the NAFTA effort later this month. Presidents Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush all support the trade agreement as do the majority of business groups and Republicans in Congress" I'd say this is a completely bi-partisan fiasco, at least as gfar as NAFTA goes, Mr. I-Told-You-So! :grin: :TU:
Let's see.... that's two Democratic Presidents, but FOUR Republican Presidents and "the majority of business groups and Republicans in Congress" (your quote). The Congressional opposition was almost entirely Democratic and the Democratic-leaning unions were the primary anti-NAFTA advocates. Clinton and Carter wanted to be good neighbors with NAFTA....Free Trade ((and the huge loss of working class American jobs that resulted) was never a major ideology for them.
who cares!!!!!!!!! most of the time it doesnt matter what side they are, its picking the least evil of the two!!!!!! Now Jesse Ventura was and is the man but typical when we get someone in that doesnt have have to suck a$$ they get jamed at every turn!!! he finally said Scr.... it and left office he did more good back there in a short time than most have in there intire life in office, and told alott of people how it was including the mooches that were sucking off the state how it was and did something about it!! Dang you had me so exicted that I went crazy typing and no spell check,DOOHH. Bud.
Because of NAFTA, when I work in Canada, I really cant do anything. I usually ride around in a golf cart all day with a plant radio on. If I try to lend a hand when the plant dosent ask for it, I would be thrown out of there and never let back in. Alan- You have to understand that the reason I am not supposed to touch anything is because the union elctricians want it that way to protect their own jobs. Obviously I am highly trained at programming where these guys are not. It takes them all day to do something I could have done in an hour. Its not because they are lazy, they just dont have the knowledge and experience I do. Believe me if it were up to plant management, I would be doing the work instead of sitting around watching. As we all know time is money. This is where the turmoil from within starts.
Harry- I think the reason there are more Republican than Democrat Presidents is simply because of the surviving Presidents at that time that was the split. There weren't any living Presidents that were not mentioned. Also, the mention of Republicans in Congress was simply to say that Clinton had managed to get backing of the other party, thus paving the way for approval. A President generally can get the support of his own party, the other one is harder to get. I'm sure there were naysayers in Congress and in business, and perhaps, many of these were Democrats, but there voice was too small. Most thought this was good for America. I think that none of these folks thought that their support and passing of this law would result in the reality we have now. I believe they thought that opening the borders would allow more US goods to be purchased without high tariff by Mexicans, Canadians, and our other close neighbors. Meaning more American jobs. Big Business had other ideas. And I was only teasing you on the I-Told-You-So line, so I hope you didn't get upset. :TU:
Man I hate the Federal Reserve This Bozo Greenspan is telling us the job losses are good for us. I suppose he hasn't lost his high {tax payer paid} job yet? http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/20/news/economy/fed_greenspan/index.htm?cnn=yes
When you consider the low pay of any manufacturing jobs left in this country, (excluding the auto workers) manufacturing is not dying, it is nearly dead. Then take into consideration the way workers are being treated in this industry....the place I last worked at before I started my own business 10 yrs. ago.....they had cameras all over the place. We were constantly under surveilance. 3 strikes, and you're out...fired. We couldn't even have our own locks on our lockers, the company would cut them off. What a sweat shop that was. And the economy was good back then. How many people do you know who have a manufacturing job and are happy? Even the union jobs are not what they used to be. Nobody's job is secure anymore. On the lighter side, I saved $300 a year by switching to Geico!:grin:
I tell you guys,I used to work at a non-union shop,and let me tell you,it was pure hell. On a regular basis,people were being hassled every time you turned around. It was not a pretty sight.Now that I am part of a union,I feel more at ease than I did before.Believe me,I have a lot of pride in what I do,and being a union worker makes me do my job even better. I do not get hassled anymore. I am not a slacker, and put in an honest day's work.Before,when I was not represented by a union,I was not a happy person. You ever go to bed, and worry about waking up the next morning? That was me. I would literally be sweating because I would worry so much and my anxiety levels were high. If people were to hear of this sort of problem,they would say find another job,but how can you when so many companies are laying people off? You hear it on the radio,that so-and-so company is laying off 10,000 workers-where do these people go to find work?the same place that all the other laid off people go-NOWHERE. I think the American people have to stop listening to George W.Bush, telling everyone how great everything is-who is he to talk? He doesn't know what the average American worker goes through, and he doesn't give a damn. All he cares is what's good for himself and his cronies. We need to have somone to best represent the American worker-not everyone is knocking down killer salaries and driving around in fancy SUV's or sport sedans. America is in bad shape and she is sinking slowly. What doesn't help is all the foreign crap that is being allowed to be sold here. Everything I buy is made here-from the type of tools I use to the cars I drive-I have no shame and yes,I do care for the future economy of our country. Believe me,I really try to buy American made goods, and I don't care what it costs-just so long as it didn't put my fellow man out of work. I work at a division of a company that manufactures very precise pressure gauges-all the parts are made here, and we manufacture the gauges here.If all of our customers decided to buy our competitors product,we'd be out of business. That is what is slowly happening to our American auto industry. If we lose our American auto industry base in this country,we might as well be all out of a job.The old addage, "It won't happen to me" is going to hit home, and there will be a lot of stunned people saying 'what happened?". If only they knew before they did the damage.
i heard on the radio recently that electrolux would lay off 2400 people in MI and send their jobs to mexico. that will probably devastate at least one county in that state. NAFTA = now all **** the americans , insert word of your choice. with the american steel industry in the shape its in, we have something to worry about. we must maintain our ability to build ships. in times of war, we cant rely on anyone but ourselves. many shipyards have closed or downsized over the years. the ability to build our own battleships is VITAL to national security. question : when was the minimum wage last raised in this country ? and what is it now ? not to make any point, i'm just asking. one thing i dont like, is the govt wants to do away with overtime pay for anything over 40 hrs a week. no way, i would tell an employer where to stick it. ot is the only way many working folks can catch up, not get ahead, just catch up. if we are going to start blaming political parties, there's enough blame to go around on both sides. as long as we keep electing multi-millionaires we will never have anyone in washington who knows what its like to try to get by on 30-40k per year. they are out of touch with reality. the govt is bought and paid for by megacorps and the politicians work for them, not the common man. there are no candidates who arent for the " special interest " when a company donates big $$ to a campaign, they get something in return, that something is never good for america. i love my country and would die defending it if i had to, but i hate my govt. henry
Nutshell Henry, Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I would love to be able to vote for an "average" guy but these days that is not the reality of the political scene. Republicrats must be trained in the Ivy League way of thinking, become a parasitic lawyer, and then enter the corrupt field of politics as a full time menace to society. Quite a far cry from farmer to part time public servant the forefathers envisioned.
the average guy doesnt stand a chance, but even if they could get in the race people would say, he just doesnt seem " presidential " the problem is, we keep electing people who do seem " presidential " not all of these guys were presidents, most are in congress, but i think my point is clear. we dont vote for a candidate, we vote against the other guy, some choice. having lived near the nations capital all my life, i have seen far too much corruption in this town. i spent 15 years with the navy and the things i saw would make taxpayers start a riot. if pro is the opposite of con, what is the opposite progress ? henry
That is the million dollar question... What can be done? Seriously? What can the "average Joe" do to change the direction of the country/economy? We can point fingers all day long and not get anywhere. We can all b1tch about it till we're blue in the face. Nothing is going to change. o No:
I don't want to miss cruisin season in Jail, so I deleted my last post.:grin: To answer your question, all we can do is get out and vote! hopefully our next pres won't be like this guy.
I'm with Joe, I'd like to stay out of Jail!:Brow: Maybe someone else will fix everything for me so I can continue living in my no-conflict zone! p
Henry you are right about electrolux. I read an article here in the Detroit Free Press that actually showed electrolux as being a profitable company! I believe it was "Our profits are not inline with our goals". Can you say: GREED. The union pres. said "We usually don't make a habit of opening our contract to negotiate with profitable companies but if the alternative is the plant closing, we will negotiate". The number that electrolux officials were looking for was so outrageous that the employees would have been making less than minimum wage for the company to make their "new" profit goals. Basically, they were going to move the plant no matter what. I don't know about you guys but this makes me sick to my stomach. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Keep this up and the middle class working man will be no more in the U.S.A. Thats funny, I always thought that the working man kept this country moving. Maybe not for much longer with good ole NAFTA.
