I am not taking a position on the death penalty, but in the USA, every single year from 1990 on, the states without the death penalty had lower homicide rates than the states that do have it.
Jim stated the concept, don't do the crime and you don't have to worry about it. So Steve since you are so passionate about defending poor people who commit crimes what are you doing to help them? I would assume you could afford bail so you are one of the well to do you seem to have so much disdain for. Don't you feel guilty about living a privileged life? If not, why not? What stops you from committing a crime? Why can't others make the same decisions? How many chances should someone get? The list can go on and on. On the original subject, I went to Burger King this weekend, my bill was $6.37, I gave the girl $6.52 and got the correct change back. So we are not totally over the cliff. The register probably figured it out for her though.
The biggest problem with the death penalty is that statistically it has definitely killed innocent people. look at the high percentage of people on death row exonerated and then extrapolate. Maybe twenty years back in Florida some dude was on death row for 14 years, but he conveniently died of cancer before they could off him. They figured out a year later that he was completely innocent and arrested the real perp. Good thing he died when he did, I suppose. How do you 100% avoid executing innocent people? By not executing them. And yes, if someone did something awful to wife or kids, I would be one of those guys trying to beat him down or kill him in the courtroom. And I wouldn't mind if someone else offed him. But that doesn't mean I or the inspecified someone else shouldn't go to jail for assault, attempted murder, or murder in such a circumstance. Neither individuals nor the state should be killing people. And you always hear about the crime victim's family and friends saying they have no sense of "closure" when someone is given life instead of the death penalty, but if they do get the death penalty and it is applied, they seem to get asked if this gives them a sense of closure and they almost always say no. China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the USA -- home of 88% of death penalty applications. Good company right there...
Oh, certainly can understand that stat John.. as I stated previously, the time between conviction and sentencing, and actual execution has increased dramatically since the death penalty was re-instated by the Supreme Court in 1977. This has muted the deterrent affect of that sentence. The typical time from sentencing to execution is at least a decade. Over half of the prisoners on death row have been there for over 18 years. For reference... https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/death-row-time-on-death-row I can understand the desire to be absolutely sure that the defendant committed the crime. Short of a confession, which usually is drawn out of the defendant after the death sentence is taken off the table, being 100% sure can be problematic, especially in the pre-CCTV camera and DNA evidence era. But this is 2022... an age where traffic camera's, cel phone tracking, and millions of private security cameras exist, and with the advanced DNA evidence collection and processing capabilities, we now have many more tools to insure the validity of that conviction than we had in years past. I believe that we need a review of the laws in regard to appeals to the death sentence. In those cases where mountains of indisputable evidence exists, then the appeals process should be curtailed. I agree that holding someone on death row for decades, and then executing them, amounts to a double punishment, and is unconstitutional. It's high time that we put the teeth back in that sentence, and use it only when that validity of conviction exists. When that validity does not exist, then the sentence needs to be life without the possibility of parole. This solves both problems... eliminates unconstitutional double punishment, and puts the deterrent affect back into the punishment for Murder. The very least your going to get if convicted is life in a 6x9 box, and in today's world, the probability of reaching that " unimpeachable verdict" is much higher than it has been in years past. I believe that once that is permeated into the public consciousness, then the teenage gangbanger is gong to think twice before he sprays bullets to settle a dispute. Of course the real answer is to keep that individual from that circumstance in the first place. Which brings us right back to the home, and the parents that instill respect for others and authority into their children. JW
Statically more innocent people have died at the hands of murderers than innocent people put down by the death penalty. Extrapolate that number. With DNA testing available now hopefully there will be an improvement in the death penalty error.
Statically more innocent people have died at the hands of murderers than innocent people put down by the death penalty. Extrapolate that number. With DNA testing available now hopefully there will be an improvement in the death penalty error.
All in all, taken to its logical conclusion? morals and ethics would eliminate 75% of the murders in today's society. If and I mean if one is innocent? God will serve justice in eternity! I know what if they don't believe in Godly things? It won't matter what they believe. God will still sort it out!
As if! Largely due to DNA testing, the death row exoneration rate in Florida and Alabama and other states was high enough that it annoyed state legislatures. Answer? Restrict access to DNA testing for death row inmates! From a 2009 article: "Alabama lawmakers recently passed a new law that requires the state to collect DNA samples from everyone who is arrested for a felony, including children. The law, which passed on the last day of the recently-concluded legislative session, also restricts access to DNA testing for people convicted of a capital offense and reduces the opportunity for a wrongfully convicted person to prove his innocence through DNA evidence." I know for a fact that Florida did the same, just hard to find a link.
Want to get something out before this thread gets possibly locked. I got spanked on occasion and hit with twigs too but always on the butt. Yes Jim, Lord forbid telling the authority's today..but I deserved it and never was hit hard.. I was a very hyperactive kid and in those days they just didn't know how to deal with me. The 3 biggest discipline's I remember was when my Mom found out I took $3 out of my Uncles wallet, another time when I found a Playboy magazine and my friend and I were touching the naked pictures and laughing all the time while my Mom was looking at us through the dining room window as we were on the porch.. and when I deviously softly kicked my Aunt in the behind and laughed. My Aunt said not to worry and laughed it off but my Mom saw it as pure disrespect which it was by far. My Mom was more hurt and so disapointed to these things I did than mad. For the first time ever I remember her putting pepper in my mouth and my eyes turned brutal red and hurt. She begged me for forgiveness after this and I told her as much as I could it was ok. We went to Church every Sunday and my Mom instilled a little fear of God in me but not to the crazy extreme. You can see it's more about my Mom doing the disapline as my Father was the sole money maker who and took care 4 children and a Uncle and Aunt who came to live with us. Mom was a house maker. Both parent tried to culture us children with piano lessons, violin lessons, Greek school, Sunday school.. Always had 6 month dentist visits etc. I hated the piano and violin lessons which I must say I wasn't very good at because I had hand tremors that came and went. Yes people have overcome big obstacles to become brilliant but it just wasn't for me. They always showed me how much these lessons cost because I wasn't practicing very much. We lost are Mom to cancer when I was around 11 but boths parents taught us to treat woman and elders with the upmost respect..
If the state knowingly restricts access to DNA testing for people convicted of a capital offense, the state is more concerned about not being found wrong then it is is sentencing the person who actually committed the crime. This in reality is well beyond stupid, because it is the jury, not the state, that finds the defendant guilty. IMHO there should be a higher standard then "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" before the death penalty is administered.
A most dubious distinction from today's Winnipeg news headlines: https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipe...d-as-police-investigate-man-s-death-1.6132380 There's 2 months remaining in 2022 to shatter this record..... Since Jan. 1, 2019 we've averaged over 40 homicides per year. Canada abolished the death penalty in 1976. Here's the Winnipeg homicide chart from 1980-2014.
O homem não tem nada melhor para fazer do que tentar estar em perfeito acordo consigo mesmo ― Sigmund Freud
If you think that's bad, check out the numbers for Chicago..... Oh BTW, the death penalty was repealed in 2011
Population of Winnipeg: 2022 833,000 2020 817,000 2010 724,000 2000 675,000 1990 654,000 1980 581,000 So since 1980 the population of Winnipeg has grown by 43%. The number of murders should rise, unfortunately. Maybe there is more to it than a change in the law almost fifty years ago...
Funny story, a coworker told me a story from this weekend where he watched a girl cashier have a brain meltdown when he gave her cash and change to pay his bill. I had not even mentioned this thread so his comment was unsolicited. These are not isolated incidents.
I guess the population of NY is dropping like crazy, so that would answer the question of dropping murder rates?
Those numbers are for the greater Winnipeg area, which includes so called nearby bedroom communities. Since I actually live in Winnipeg, I can also tell you where the majority occur. Sadly most are in the so called low income areas and close to downtown. I won't disagree much about the population increase comparison. The last four years have seen higher than average numbers though. At least my neighborhood is quite safe. Here's the 2022 map fyi. https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/interactive-map-the-number-of-homicides-in-winnipeg-in-2022-1.5808812 Shall we return to educating young people just how great old Buicks are?
