I'm surprised at the negativity of the shop owners. First, I always say to my mechanics upfront that I am willing to pay what the effort is worth, for whatever is needed (such as ordering a rare part or from a non-regular supplier). It's sad if some classic car owners are not realizing it is not the '70s and early 80s any more, and that a shop may have to go through some extra effort to serve them. That's one reason I came to the realization that I was not going to be able to have V-8 daily drivers my whole life. Also, I changed from doing some of the work myself to paying for someone professional to make the wise decisions. But I run fast from a mechanic who has no flexibility, either for my new cars or old cars. There are plenty of good guys around here willing to help by working on an old car, and I've never had a fuss on either side based on penny pinching. I let the shop set the price with no complaints from me - if they want to keep it moderate, great. If they want something extra in payment for some extra effort they had to made, well just give me the straight scoop and I'll take care of it (and I AM just working class).
This is really goes both ways also. You take the initiative to make sure the shop owner understands that you are willing to pay for whatever is needed. That is pro-active and smart as long as you do not talk somebody who really doesn't have the skills into trying to do a job because they are enticed by the extra money. Conversely, shop owners need to articulate to their clientle what is needed to fix their car. If somebody comes in with a suspension that is heavily corroded or some after-market parts installed, then it is the shop operators responsibility to explain to them what they need to do the job right. Too many times I see it not go that way. The shop owner or salesman will sell the job at regular flat rate and then get all huffy when the consumer is upset to find out it is going to cost 3 times more. If the shop owner were to tell the customer the potential extra costs in the first place, there would be no such upset. The customer could either accept his terms or choose to go elsewhere. No problem. If a shop operator knows that he does not want to or is not equipped to do a certain kind of work, then he has to educate his employees to turn it away before they get into a bad situation.
After reading a few pages seems like i have been living this life for over 20 years been on one side of the fence though. as a young kid started working a the local buick dealer (Smyly Buick Malden MA) and always had good experiences working on old or modified cars. Some of the customers were very hard to deal with ........ Until they got to know me/us and realized that there cars were in very good hands i would always do what i said and said what i did They paid for what they needed from mild to wild esp through the GN years every monday i would have a few cars that either broke something or had a box full of parts in the trunk that needed to be installed Once i became service manager we were a banks dealer whipple and magnasum and building brand new hot rods cars and trucks lowered lifted blown and turbo charged. I guess because i have a soft spot for a lumpy cam or whine of a blower a whistle of a turbo or just that completly stock well cared for original car that has been cared for for many years like a new born baby Hopefully get a chance to meet a few guys that live near boston area at the car show sunday sept 12 346 salem st revere ma see my post smyly buick in the bench section
The stories in this thread are one of the reasons why I do the work myself. http://v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=195896 That, and my father raised me with the understanding that "if someone else put it together, so can you".
I gotta tell this story: There was a gentleman and his wife from Needham, MA. back in the mid-to late 60's who raised "anal" to a new level. They had a '64 Ford Country Squire, and a '67 Galaxie 500. These cars sparkled. Concourse-level cars are not that well-kept. The guy polished the inside of his air filter housings (honest - he did!). No matter what the weather, when either the guy or his wife pulled in for gas, they would leap out of the car so that we would not touch the fuel filler door. When the '67 burned out a dash bulb, the guy paid me to remove the front seat so that we would not get it dirty with our shoes while swapping the bulb. The water pump went on the '64 wagon. The guy took it to Muzi Ford in Needham and insisted that the body shop order the proper engine paint and spray paint the pump before installation. When they decided to trade the Country Squire they went to Muzi to order a new car. Fred Muzi - the co-owner of the dealership (and who would verify this) refused to sell this individual (I do know his name) a car. Fred said that there was nobody at his dealership who wanted to work to the level that the man expected. Several years later, Fred told me that the guy had a heart attack and died while polishing his car. I swear that every word of this is true - and there's a lot more... ou:
Shortly after I'd installed the lowering springs in my first Skylark, I took it to a local Montgomery Wards to have them do a wheel alignment on it since it was on sale. I watched as they pulled the car in and put it on the rack, and went to the waiting room for a bit. About 30 minutes later I heard the car fire up and I started walking to the shop when I heard my car start boiling the tires in the lot outside the bays. The guy pulled the car out front, and he was a big guy but being 6'6" and 320lbs at the time, I was bigger. I walked up behind him and said "Wow, that car really moves, huh?" "Yeah, it's got some balls man, I didn't expect it to lay rubber so easy" "Well, you probably didn't expect the guy that owns it to be watching you light up the tires in the lot, either." He turned a little pale, then a little red with embarrassment, apologized, and the service writer that saw the exchange ended up cutting the price in half. I never went back there again, and when I got the new Skylark, I just broke out the string and chalk. As for my new cars (re:computer managed), my brother-in-law is a Chevy mechanic at a dealership and my brother was a service writer at a Cadillac dealer, and I only ever take the car to one of them or someone they trust.
When I first got my 67 Riv GS in 1976 I dropped it off at Peacock Buick in Tysons Corner, VA for inspection and idler arm and front brakes. Went across the street to get a donut and here comes my car FULL throttle! Almost ran me over. I turned around and walked back to the shop and waited for the guy. He explained that he had to do a before repair test drive with a s#!t eating grin. I said I'm getting brakes and suspension work not motor or trans. Anyway they did the work and found out a few years later he put one side of the brake shoes on backwards (leading/trailing) and that side wore out prematurely. Also, in the early 80s in VA I had TWO GSX's and had to take them in for inspection every 6 months! What a pain! One time the guy inspecting my silver 4 speed X went on test drive and went to MacDonald's to get coffee. Fortunately he spilled it between his legs. I HOPE IT BURNED!:spank:
Not all, just yours!:laugh: Seriously, though, we do tauruses all day long, day in and out. These are not classic cars, just daily drivers. My customers always get a premium service, but if some fool with a classic car comes in and wants to tell me my job, hang over my shoulder and in general waste alot of our time, I gotta charge for it. After all, I'm not here for my health, I'm here to make profit. If it takes extra time to make it come out right, that has to be charged out. How would you feel if your boss came up to you and said that he has an unusual job for you but you will not be paid to do it? Would you do it? Or would you report him to the labor board?
At the last dealership body shop that I managed, one of my estimators brought a customer to me with a complaint. She was in tears. When I asked her how I could help, she sniffled through this explanation. She said that when she came to pick up her car, there was a dirt spec in her paint at the bottom of the right front fender between the bumper and the wheel. When she complained to the body shop advisor, he apologized and said he would see if the painter could buff it out while she waited. After the painter wet sanded and buffed the spec, the body shop advisor and the painter stood by while she inspected it. She complained that she could still see where the spec was. The body shop advisor reasoned that the only reason she would ever know it was there is because she had seen it before it was buffed and that nobody would ever notice it. She went on to say that she could not live with that imperfection at which point the painter informed her that she was just being anal. Her eyes filled with tears and she began to cry. Being the manager, it is generally my job to see both sides of every issue. But, the thing that I could not get passed was that the painter made her cry by calling her anal. Regardless of how I felt about it, I knew how the owner of the dealership would feel about it. So, I called the painter in and told him that he would need to apologize to the lady. The painter flatly refused to apologize. In fact, he added a few more details in regards to his opinion of her. Unfortunately for both of us, I had to fire him. Was she Anal? Sure. Was she a pain to make happy? Absolutely! However, as far as I know, she is still buying cars from and having her service done at that dealership to this day.
For $300 for an alignment, I would expect not only perfection, but wine, Brie, attractive female company, soft music, and dinner to be included. :laugh:
Here's the thing. Quote someone $99 for an alignment, don't charge $300 when you can't get it right and it took longer. I would take my car in to save time that I don't have because a professional can do it quickly. If it takes them hours to do something that would take me the same amount of time, and they have all the equipment and supposed know-how, well that's just sad. And a lot of mechanics think they're god's gift to man, it must be the power they often hold over people who know nothing of cars, and so they think they're worth $100 an hour? Please. You better move fast in that hour. I have been burned and never again. I have never met a mechanic that put service above the dollar. Even the good mechanics, will jive just to get more money, even old customers. I saw a shop my grandmother had been going to for 15 years try to charge an additional $100 to setup her replacement keyless entry remotes, and it turned out they couldn't even friggin figure it out, so I looked up the directions and did it right there in their shop in 15 minutes. It's sickening. Do they forget they are in the SERVICE industry?
Hi Steve, You can wash with soap, you can wash with soda- but you can't get rid of that fishey odah! :laugh:
Last time I paid for an alignment (15 yrs ago) (on a Chevy van) all the shims fell out on the way home. He forgot to tighten the a-arm bolts. Now, I do all alignments myself. A dial level for camber and two oil cans, a pair of yardsticks and a tape measure gets the toe-in right on the money.
If you only knew... That an alignment machine runs upwards of 50 grand. That a qualified tech gets over 20-25 bucks an hour. That because you screwed one tie rod too far in the sleeve, the tech had to take your work apart again to make it right. That overhead in a 2 bay shop is close to 30 grand a month. That many jobs can turn into a can of worms, not due to tech incompetence, but siezed, rusted, hacked up, incorrectly installed parts. And a host of other issues that you know nothing about because you have obviously never done it for a living. That mistakes happen, and a reputable shop like mine will stand behind it and make it right. You have had a few bad experiences in your life, but that does not give you the right to profile mechanics as crooks. Sure, we do it for money, but don't you also go to work for money? Folks like you are the very reason I don't give estimates until I look at the car, and then it is only an estimate, not a quote. And yes, I am Gods gift to people who need repair because I have NEVER overcharged a single customer, no matter how much of a donkey they are, We admit our mistakes and charge only for what we do. I have NEVER sold a person a part they didn't need, but if a job takes longer than expected due to no fault of ours, yes, I'm gonna call you and tell you it's going to cost some extra labor. And if you want to argue about it, go ahead, cause the clock is ticking and it's your dime. I maintain a state of the art shop, my techs attent seminars and continuous new model training, and my diagnostic equipment is updated at least every year. Pray you never break down and come into my shop for an emergency repair, because an attitude like yours will land you in the street. Or I will politely tell you to take it to the one shop in town that WILL take you for a ride.
Steve, I wouldn't doubt that your work is excellent. :beers2: With 10 plus cars though I have to do my own work. If I could find a good place I might pay for some work but other than chassis shops (race), machine shops and trans shops I haven't found any around here.
Interesting what this thread has become. The original post was about the anxiety that I feel when my car is out of my sight and control. It was not about the quality of work to be done on the car. I wouldn't leave my car somewhere if I did not feel comfortable with the people I was leaving it with. The interesting thing is that this thread has turned into owners complaints about shops vs shops complaints about customers. To be clear, I am not complaining that it has turned into this. If anything, as a 20 year manager of automotive businesses, I find it really interesting. It just goes to show how much of this type of anxiety and animosity is out there. It surprised me a bit because I thought "car guys" would have a much greater understanding of the frustrations of a shop owner. By the same token, I thought shop owners could appreciate a "car guys" concerns. Guess not... LOL I will share with you that as a shop operator, I was outstandingly successful at every single shop I ran. One of the things that I attribute this to is the ability to develop relationships with my clients while educating them about their repair. I could not even begin to tell you how many times that I explained the exact same thing to each different customer. Even though I had to say the same information hundreds of times. To each customer, it was the first time for them and regardless of how many times I had already said it, they needed to hear it too. This complete communication about the repair process, potential costs and potential repair delays saved me untold grief when these potential situations occured. The customer was already prepaired and aware that it could happen, so the upset was avoided. Probably 7 times out of 10 when I sat with a customer that was angry at one of my service advisors or body shop advisors, it was because the advisor assumed the customer knew something. The other 3 out of 10 was typically a customer who had no 2nd form of transportation while their car was being repaired and was looking for somebody to blame for their bad situation. Either way, as the shop operator, I always knew that I was the expert. And with that came the responsibility to inform the customer what to expect. No exceptions. The day that spending time educating a customer becomes too much of a burden is the same day that running your shop will become torture. It may have been my business to fix cars, but as a shop operator, it was my job to serve people.
