Help v8buick.com crashing

Rob,

Since you brought it up..

To insure that this is not a pig slow site, this deal runs on it's own server at the host.. and not some POS... Bucy was spitting out words like "Zeon processor" and the like, that I have really no idea what they mean (beyond being trade names for IBM) and all this stuff about a "huge pipe"..

All I wanted to make sure of was that it was fast, I was not concerned about the specifics.. To insure that, we had to have our own server, to deal with memory issues and such..

Sorry I can't be more techinical on this, but I build cars for a living, not computers.

But switching to all this stuff is what caused the issues we had back around the beginning of the year. The current issue is nothing more than database cleanup stuff, which was taken care of early this morning, or last night by the looks of it..

When we started V-8, we hosted in house, built a pretty dang nice server for it.. I recall writing a check for a couple grand to do that, figuring it was a one time expense, and we would have a nice little Buick board.. and never lose any data, since we controlled it.

We upgraded that a while later, and put some other stuff on it, and got some outside funding to pay for that new server..

But then this deal really took off, and the bandwith charges, and speed capablities of our connection were overwhelmed. And the bandwith stuff was costing me a couple hundred a month, and it was slow.

So we made the move, and then upgraded it from there, and even tho' I still have to write checks toward the end of the year to cover expenses (try around 4K a year, and climbing..), I feel it is worth it, and you don't see me bitching about lack of donations, or writing checks to make the site fast, even with all the data being transfered on a particular day.


If Buickland ever takes off, then your gonna find all this out for yourself, and then you will understand how it feels when someone comes on and says what you have here. You will see how laughable it is when they base their argument on some tiny little website, compared to yours when you have a thousand posts a day.. folks posting pictures, avatars, and going hundreds of posts about their latest "groundbreaking project"..

Even better yet, go into the Buick Restoration/Performance business, and let your competitors advertise and go on and on about themselves on your dime, 'cause Lord knows the majority of them are never gonna send a nickle your way.. check the contributors list if you don't beleive me..

Funny thing is, there are a number of guys on here who contribute generously every year, and they never bitch when the site goes down.. yet those guys are the ones who make it possible for the guys who never contribute, to come on and bitch when it has a hickup.

I have always found that to be curious.

Hey, whatever... say what you want, you will learn, if you and your brother's board takes off, that you have to grow thick skin if your gonna run something like this. Then you will be qualified to talk about running something like this.

And only then.

JW

 

There's no doubt that bandwidth=Big$$$ for something like this. We all need to be appreciative of the work this board takes to keep up. I definitely am not complaining.

 

Whoa. Even though my brother posted a message how come I get slammed? First off I created Buickland for the enjoyment of creating it. I have been involved in computers, the web, databases, etc for a very long time and when I decided to build Buickland, I wanted to learn SQL and how forums worked. On Buickland anyone can see what it costs to run it which isn't much. For all that don't understand how web space is rented I'll give a easy breakdown. First off web space is equal to hard drive space and bandwidth. Hard drive space is simple and most web host companies will give on an average 75mb to unlimited amount of space. With bandwidth, here is the equation,
(Average Daily Visitors x Average Page Views x Average Page Size x 31 x Fudge Factor). Here is an example for an average forum...
Average Daily Visitors = 3000
Average Page Views per a person = 100
Average Page Size = 100kb
(31) = number of days in a month
Fudge Factor = 1.5
Total = 1,395,000,000 which is little over one gig of bandwidth being used.
One gig is equal to 2 to the 30th power 1,073,741,824 bytes or 1000 mb
Now forums do not use much bandwidth because normally you are not downloading files such as mp3 songs and games, etc. If that would be the case, the bandwidth usage would be much higher.
What does matter is the bandwidth connection between the servers and the internet. This connection is what can make a website fast or slow depending upon the number of people that are using it at one time. That is why you see V8 run faster at night or early in the morning when less people are on. As to V8 having its own server does not mean anything because multiple servers can be tied together which is then connected to the internet. So having your own server, it does not mean it has its own connection. The average cost to have a dedicated server is about $60 a month. What I don't get is how it is costing you 4 grand plus a year to run v8? If that is the true amount then I would be looking else where for a hosting company. I also want to say that the recent problems are being caused by more of the server and SQL, and not the board. The board can be faster but a lot of the old threads would have to be deleted which no one wants.
If someone has a complaint about the site being down, speed, etc., contact racknine.com for they are the ones that host V8. It's not always Jim's fault.
Another thing, my brother also does not speak for me.

 

I'm glad my brother was able to put a justifiable explanation up for everyone to see the cost of running a forum like this. As far as advertising bit, I don't see that much. There are people who offer there services through information on a subject, but I haven't seen where they made a thread dedicated to describing their business. Plus, why would the vendors section be on this forum if there was such a problem with advertising?

 

John..

Sorry if it came out like I was slamming on you.. that was not my intent.. I just used it as an example..

as to the computer stuff, I know we passed 2 gig a month some time ago in bandwith. Don't forget all the pics in all these posts..

I can't recall all the specifics of what had to be done to get this deal to where it is, but I know specific rather large $$ investments were made by the host, specifically for us.. that translated into higher per month costs. Also, V-bulletin is the most espensive program to have I bought the owned lisc this last year.. that was a couple hundred if I remember right.. and, from time to time we have to have stuff done by outside programers, and they are big $$..

Small boards/sites are real easy to do these days, but when you get bigger, those "good deals" out there just don't work, unless you want to put up with some really slow load times. I was not willing to do that.

When this thing slows down, it's more because of the database, than the hardware or their connection.

JW

 

Rob,

I have no bitch about vendors advertising, as this board was set up as a service to the community, not for anyone's personal gain. I have said many times that I would foot the whole bill if required, and this topic is only being discussed because you brought it up, again..

But at some point in time, you would think that the decent thing to do, if your a vendor, using this board to advertise your buisness, would be to at least flip a few bucks it's way every year. A number of vendors have in fact done this, but some fairly notable ones have not.

I won't comment any further as to the "justified expenses" as I have alot of imporant things to accomplish today, beyond winning some argument on the internet. That's just not important to me. I have said all that needs to be said on the topic, at some point in time this becomes a "he said, she said" deal, and I am quite certain that we can come up with more important things to discuss.

JW

 

I think Jim does a great job at keeping the board running..... it isn't easy running a full time business with employees and then trying to run (babysit) a bulletin board too.
This board isn't a business, persay, it was intended as a community center of sorts. A damn nice one too. When we all go to Church on Sunday (those of us who do), do you complain about giving a few greenbacks to offset the running of the church and to help the pastor put a little food in his mouth? uzzled:
I do all my own website, and the cost is very small per month. I am sure that my "unlimited" bandwidth package would change if my bandwidth exceeded 1 gig, then 2 every month. Then what if I had to have someone do some of the programming for me.... big $$! The cost just went from $20 a month to about $400-600 a month. This place chews up tons of bandwidth....... there are almost always 150 people online here all day long. Try that on a small board and see how long it runs....... been there and done that!

We should all be thanking Jim for giving us all a place to play, and some of us a place to complain.

Now, get back out in the garage and get those Buicks done!
:3gears:

Said my $0.02 worth........

Mike

 

Actually 1 or 2 gigs is nothing to hosting companies. Now if this site was something like Microsoft, you are probably looking at upwards of 2000+ gig which then is a big deal. The worst part is that these server companies pounce on companies and people that don't have any knowledge. They make big claims with unlimited web space and bandwidth but you hardly see any telling you on how much data they can transfer to the internet. Like if I would say I can transfer 255mb a second to the internet, someone that don't know better would think that was a lot. In reality all it would take is a 166 people using DSL to clog up the pipelines. The same goes with cable modems. If you lived out in the middle of no where, with no one around you, you would probably have the best service. As soon as your neighbors start building next to you and start signing up though, the bandwidth increases and the performance decreases. You can't win unless youre willing to spend big bucks for a direct connection.

 

I've read all the posts and while I may be a bit of a chowder head when it comes to this stuff this is what I do understand.
Jim and his helpers give us a great vehicle for exchanging ideas, encouragement, parts, pictures and more. I have never once sen or heard of them asking anyone not to post so much or to limit their posts to just the discusussion of Buicks. Thats what makes this forum so great.
Just remember back when one of our members father died recently. The outpouring of condolences and support was overwhelming. Just yesterday I was reading a post where one of our members is dealing with a chronic pain situation and others were coming to his support.
How many parts have all of us bought, sold or donated that have not only helped ourselves but other as well.
How many times have each of us learned something new because of a member on this board.
I have never recived a bill for any of this nor have I ever felt like I was pressured into giving money to help support the board. I'm sure Jim would appreciate it, but from what I read he is OK to support it on his own because he belives its the right thing to do for this community.
So, when its too slow for you, wait 'till later. It always speeds up plus it sounds like they are working on it.
OK. I'm done venting. Like Jim I have a full time job that requires some attention. Unfortunatly not like Jim who gets to build Buicks all day I just get to write specifications.

 

Jim,
Check your PayPal account. I have sent another donation. The support I have received from the board members here is wonderful! I have personally met Jim W several times and he recently built an engine for me. He is a standup guy and I beleive it when he says he would foot the whole bill for this site if he had to. He is very passionate about what he does and is busy beyond belief! I am thankful he does take the time to deal with this board. Many people probably don't know that he sleeps very little. He is too busy making customers and everyone else happy with what he is connected to. I really think if vendors use this board to advertise their products and services, and are not paying any advertising fees, they definitley should donate something at least once a year. Many people that use this board, myself included, tend to buy things from the companies that post here. I would be a little upset if I found out that they were not supporting this board! Some of the reasons I buy from them is that I associate them with Jim since they are here, and I figure that they are good people because of that. Maybe that's stupid to some, but that is the way alot of us think. If they are advertising here, and people talk up their products, then I buy from them, assuming that my purchases help the V8 board thru their support for it. Apparently that is not always the case! So, I have sent a donation and will keep doing so. It is a small price to pay for what I get from the board. I'll shut up now!

Brian :beer

 

This thread started out with a discussion about why it was slow. People wanting info. on it and many in past threads wondering if it was their equip. or service. I don't recall too many threads on here that were started just for people to whine. Personally, I was just giving info. that it was happening to me, and asking more computer literate people why it was happening, not complaining. Since then, many have stated that we were ALL complaining and then Jim says that most of us are users since we all didn't donate. I did donate this morning just before reading Jim's post. It was not a large amount, but I can't afford a large amount. Maybe the small amount I PayPal'd today labels me "Some-what of a user". I know this must be hard work keeping it running. Glad it's not me! I will never mention this crap again. If it takes me a week to get on the board, then so be it.

 

Thanks for the support guys.. and John, don't sweat it, I was just a little grumpy this morning.. being the normal crush of a Monday AM, and prolly not having enough dew in my system yet..

Did not mean to come off like I was bitching, but I do get a kick out of folks telling me how easy this all is.. I thought that too when we started it, but found out somewhere around 2500 members that it gets very demanding. I know Mike deals with lots of emails on a daily basis, everything from username/password issues, to database stuff, and even if it just takes a few minutes to address each problem or answer an email, mulitplying that by 10 or 15 emails a day really adds up.

I don't mind if one of you guys shoots me an email when the board is acting up, because truthfully, I don't get a chance to be on here like I used to.. just too busy in the shop these days. I just happen to be sitting at my desk scarfing down a burger right now, getting ready to start the "second shift" here this evening.

Thanks again guys, and I am sure everything is squared away now.

JW

 

What i intended to make this thread about is It's supposed to be about why sometimes an error occurs. For now it has stopped. So thanks guys.

 

i hope my post didnt come across as a complaint. it wasnt meant as one. i only meant to share info, and state what type of error message i was getting, and when i was getting it. there have been a few minor hiccups over the years, but MB & JW always fix it fast.

the user to donor ratio is "interesting".

henry

 

No, not at all Henry... No worries

JW

 

mike:
as a computer scientist , i am fully aware of the time & skill & effort that is involved in maintaining a site . i fully appreciate ypur efforts and thank u wholeheartedly for your dedication .

 

Cool info Mike. Everything is still working great. Keep it up. Thanks for all you and anyone else does around here on the board!:TU: :TU: :TU: :TU:

 

... Nevermind that forum software like the software that this site is running were not written or designed to run HUGE loads...

Im sure their database design would leave something to be desired as well...

For the activity and size of this site, for it being hosted at a remote location (i.e. dedicated virual server, I'm sure), it stays up pretty well.