Hey there.. Seems like I post a lot of threads in here, but I have a lot of questions as well The other day I had the timing light on, and I could see the harmonic balancer "dancing" a little.. I drove all last season, and have driven a couple of times this season, without feeling any shaking/rumbling.. I think its about 2-3 degrees off.. The best thing would be to get it replaced or get it rebuilt, but Im from Denmark - 4600 miles from USA, so shipping is ~$180 each way ;-( And as far as I know, nobody has the knowledge to do the work here Is it dangerous to drive with? Can I do something myself? Thanks -Houmark
Dancing in what manner? If simple timing wander at idle, then that is not uncommon for a loose timing chain, weak advance springs or possibly a slightly wobbly vacuum signal from a vacuum leak or fuel mixture issues (or worse case flattening a cam) effecting the vacuum advance. The best check would be to disconnect the vacuum advance (and plug the hose), put the stiffest mechanical advance springs you have or can get (or run zip ties temporarily around the advance spring's posts if you can on a nailhead, IDK), then check the timing with a small rev to it to pull the slack out of the timing chain. Any timing wobble with stiff or zip tied springs and no vacuum advance would be purely a function of timing chain slack. A few degree's of drift is normal from idle to a few hundred more rpm. If it's in and out wobble you have issues. If you can visibly see the rubber on the balancer has deteriorated and possibly slipped, you need to use a piston stop and mark out TDC on cylinder 1 and see if it corresponds to the timing mark on the balancer, or check against a known good balancer.
I have no good balancer, thats the problem :/ Can I do something myself, or is it complicated? I got wobble, and I know that things thats out off balance can "shake" break things
Wobble in what sense? Few millimeters in and out, or the timing mark bounces around when taking a reading? If it's a few mm of in and out wobble, order a new balancer. If you suspect the balancer has slipped, you need to either purchase or make a piston stop (google it), then use it to find top dead center. Directions to do so should either come with the piston stop or are easily found on line. Basically install stop, manually turn engine until it stops, mark balancer at the timing tab, manually rotate engine the other way until it stops, mark balancer at the timing tab, then TDC is exactly in the middle of the two marks. Never crank the engine with the stop in place, as expensive bad things will happen, its best to disconnect the battery to be safe.
I think the first and foremost question still stands. When you say you have wobble, do you just mean that the timing mark is jumping back and forth around the circumference of the balancer. Or is the balancer "wobbling" like it is coming loose from the engine, or maybe "wobbling" like a tire out of round. When you say wobble, to me it means something looks like it's loose or warped. If the timing mark is just moving up and down the balancer by a couple degrees then I would try what was recommended above. Or a simpler way would be to just unplug the vacuum advance and plug the hose as mentioned. Then run the rpm's up some on the engine to pull some of the slack out of the timing chain by introducing load and see if the timing mark is still moving or if it holds steadier.
If you open the hood and look down on the balancer, the part longest towards the radiator, where the 2 belts for generator and power steering runs moves ~5mm from side to side ( up and down as well ) .. Is that easier to understand? I have to take a look at what condition the balancer is in, but i didn't catch my eye last time..
The timing mark is steady, no problem there.. It's the hole thing thats kicks out to the sides.. As if you got a bad wheel bearing, so you can tilt the wheel a little bit.. It's hard to explain when you're missing some important words ;-)
Okay, that is clearer and does sound like the balancer is coming apart, which as you have identified is a bad thing. I would order one and limit the running of the vehicle. Swapping it depends on your skill set with tools. It's not hugely difficult in my opinion. Loosen accessories, remove belts, break the bolt loose, and I assume nailhead balancers are pressed on (I don't know?), and if so you'll need a remover and installer tool. The fan shroud or radiator may need to come out for hand and arm clearance to work depending on the vehicle.
Where can I get a new one? Was afraid that it was coming apart, but nothing to do about it, swap it for a new one.. The car is an Electra 65, so think a got the space :-D
I copied this from another thread, here are some options. ----------------------------------------------- I have BRAND NEW Romac balancers in stock. $349.00+$7.00 for longer bolt+shipping, in stock. Tom T. Tom Telesco Classic and Muscle Automotive 465 Glenbrook Rd Stamford, CT 06906-1820 Day Phone 203-324-6045 ET NailHead Mini-Starters '53-'66 Adjustable Roller Tip Rocker Arms - All NailHeads "If I can't get it, you don't need it!" ----------------------------------------------------- or http://nailheadbuick.com/dampner http://www.bhjdynamics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3_33&products_id=281
Tom's a great source for the balancer (got mine from him) but in the meantime make sure the crank bolt is torqued down TIGHT! if that bolt has come loose it can ruin your crank...it needs 225 ft/lbs of torque or better, I couldn't tell you the metric equivalent. Check that bolt now! Good luck!
But wait a minute, he said the pulleys are wobbling. The pulley attaches to the inside hub of the damper, not the outside rubber clad ring. It could be that either the six bolts are loose or some one tightened the bolts without having the pulley centered on the damper. I just worked on a 67 442 that someone did that to and I had to remove the pulley, clean-up the centering hole on the pulley and clean-up the centering ridge on the damper pulley and put it back on. If the damper it coming apart it means the rubber is rotting and the outer ring is coming off, that wouldn't cause the pulleys to wobble.
Thanks to all who is answering.. Before I drove to work this morning ( 5:20 am ) I tryed to push and pull the pulley wheel, and it didn't move at all.. Hopefully it's just to pulley wheel that has beeen tightent wrong.. Took some pictures inside the pulley, not that you can see much but a picture says more than a 1000 words..
Just pulled off the fan, and the pulley.. Going to clean them up and respray them before installing them again.. Hope philbquick is right about wrong essembly last time.. The bolts had grease on them, so think it has beennoff before.. Took a picture inside the balancer, but where are the rubber sopose to be? Please have a look and shout out how it looks ;-) Houmark Put in the pictures in a while, my phone and this site isn't good freinds pt
The rubber is in there. It is sandwhiched between the two halfs of the center section. If the rubber is bad it will start to come apart and it will work its way out from between the pieces. Could be in the front or the back I believe. It should be easy to spot cause there will be rubber poking out when you should only see metal.
Just looked closer at the balancer, and no rubber stick out on the front side, and couldnt feel any on the backside.. Nothing is loose, and I could not move the balancer from side to side, only turn it around together with the crank.. That must be a good sign?
With the pulley off, I'd fire up the engine for a minute and watch just the balancer, so you can double check what you are seeing without the distraction of the pulley and belts, or isolate the movement to a possibly warped or loose pulley. Mind you the water pump isn't turning during this period, so limit running to 5 continuous minutes or less if the coolant is still in the engine or a minute or less if there is no coolant in the system. Also, of course your alternator won't be charging, but one to five minutes of running will hardly dent the battery charge.
Had the engine running, and had my finger down and touch the balancer.. The "timing ring" moves ~1mm total ( 0,5mm to each side = 0,019 inch ) so i guess Ill have to wait and see when the pulley, with belts is back on.. Im sure that my balancer isnt going apart, so i can sleep a bit calmer tonight
That sounds reasonable. If the front face of the damper, where the pulleys mount, is running true then either the pulley was on wrong (not on the centering ring) or the pulley is bent. Judging from the grease and dirt packed around the center dampener bolt, it looks like nothing moved there.
Installed it all today, with new belts and lubed up bolts All the pulleys are driving a bit wobbly, but better than before i cleaned it.. It have propely been doing that for meny years. Former owner always had the car fixed at a garage, so he didnt do anything about it, or know that it was like that at all.. I dont think Ill do anything more in this matter.. If it shakes to death, Ill pull the entire engine out and give it a complete tune up ( Pistons, crank, ported heads and so on ) Another thing I worried a little about is my "low" oil pressure at hot idle.. Its just over 7psi ( 0,5 bar ) but the engine dosnt ping or nothing.. Im running, as said before, a synt ELF Evolution 5w30 with a bottle of zddp.. The oil pressure comes up to 44psi the same second i touch the gas pedal.. Could thicker oil help raise my pressure in hot idle? How about 10w40, or even as thick as 20w50? Houmark
