It is interesting to note that if all the plants being closed, noone has mentioned that the Buick 3800 (the best engine in GM) is being phased out. they will replace it with the 3.6VVT and the L6 . The 3.6VVT has almost the same specs as the 3800 ,but is really an unknown quantity, and has many more parts to go bad. The L6 is a good engine, but is VERY thirsty! The have to work to get 20MPG The thinking behind this is that the 3800 is an antiquated push rod motor. and the others are "cutting edge" . This is the kind of thinking that is going to kill GM.
Yeah, and they're real interested in getting feedback too. Try sending a message to Buick over their consumer web page site. It doesn't work. Errors out for missing fields filled in correctly, then when you page back whatever you put in originally is deleted and you need to start over again from scratch. Idiots. http://www.gm.com/gmcomjsp/contactus/
That is a shame, the 3800 has been a very good engine. Doesn't GM remember? They already tried the 3.6VVT, it was the 3.4 twin dual cam or some such nonsense. That was a disaster, and back they went to the 3800. Now if they took this new Pontiac Solstice, popped a 3800 SC engine into and made us a new musclecar of sorts, they would sell like hotcakes. We Americans LIKE torque, I don't mind pushrod engines, look at the 7.0L 500 hp Vette engine. Alas lawyers and bean counters would never allow it. More bad decisions o No: Somebody hit on it earlier, GM needs some "car guy" blood in upper management to kick start the line-up. Until people can get excited about buying a new car, they are screwed, and who gets excited about the Malibu :sleep:
Too slow to respond to the market. And then respond with the wrong products. What, 5 years after the PT Cruiser came out they respond with this? They look like a beagle with it's nose to the ground. Ford or Chrysler would get my business if I were in the market for a new car.
It's interesting how everyone seems quick to complain about the new V6 that GM is using when all they are doing is imitating the Jap cars and making a smooth gutless torqueless motor. Like a Toyota. My son works at a Toyota dealer and he was trying to tell me the new Avalon would smack my Regal SC. Not quite....not with only 230 ft lb torque! The new GM V6 is in line with the competition and being that they copied alot of Honda and Toyota technology will be similar in many ways. They are trying to give the average person what they want.....will it work?....I doubt it cuz the publics perception is against it. Did GM sell tons of Nova/Corollas? Or Vibe/Matrix? Another thing....the people who act like, say the 97-04 Regals, Impalas, GPs are primitive 20 yr old designs has never worked on and/or one or looked underneath. Competitive with anything outthere. Also alot of imports like Accord/Camry don't have rear disk brakes standard. They come with rear drums and steel wheels where the GMs have disk/alloy std. Anyway in the end I believe GM is done for. Toyota is making such good profits that they can roll them back into the cars/service etc. How can GM or Ford for that matter possibly compete? The could make the "perfect" car (no such thing) and it isn't going to turn the Titanic around quick enough without some kind of devine or gov't intervention. Remember Chrysler's situation? Americans seem to like to kick people/companies when they are down unfortunately......
Yeah that HHR is a turd......they were constipated for 5 yrs after the PT Cruiser before they churned out this thing.
"What does GM offer us performance wise besides the mega buck Vette and Caddy?" Mike: Cobalt SS competes fine with the new Civic Si and you don't have to rev it like the Civic to it's 8500 rev limit to do it.
That HHR looks like a new Dodge Durango with a PT style grille. WTF?? We just got a new Pontiac G6 4dr in the shop for crash repair. THAT is a good looking car ! Fit and finish is great ! I am not crazy about the name at all,but the 2dr G6 is what the GTO should have looked like to begin with. GM needs to get their act together.
GM Woes One of the biggest problems with GM (or any large bureacratic organization) is the mangement "culture" that winds up being an intrinsic part of it's operation. George pointed out several posts ago about the fact that car guys need to be in charge of car production (I agree) in order to turn out a desireable product to car oriented people. Enthusiasm is the first ingredient! My experience with any bureacracy is that "the process becomes the product", as MaCluhan observed. :Brow: Team play, focus groups, inputs & outputs, context fields, waypoints, endless meetings and such foster an enviornment where everyone and everything is brought down to the performance level of Joe Average where it is manageable, predictable, reliable, and above all, controllable. People who don't fit in to a certain parameter within the organizational chart are ruthlessly excluded; a lack of team play threatens management culture because it threatens control. This, unfortunately, relegates most enthusiastic and talented people into the basement dungeon or onto the sidewalk. :ball: It also stands to reason that people who are quite comfy in a bureacratic maze will try to win acceptance for the beliefs and goals from outside their own walls. I think we have here a principal explanation for the boring, banal, cookie cutter designs that continually roll off assy lines, ALL of THEM looking LIKE ALL OF THE OTHERS! uzzled: Just because it works on the 18th floor doesn't mean it will work on the street. BTW, can anyone name the presidents of the major car manufacturers anymore? The market certainly doesn't care, a damning indictment that management culture has indeed taken over, and the titular heads of the organization need no longer be known as individuals. I believe this is the major reason for GM's slippery slide; the bureacratic mentality has organized the company for IT'S own good; not for the styling dept., nor engineering, nor production, and certainly not for the good of the car buying public,or, I might ad; for the continued long-term health of GM! The closing of the #1 and #2 plants in rated quality attest to this...(I'm not just saying that because I'm a Canadian :Brow: ) short term comfort is all that matters. While I'm on a rant, addressing the GN issue; this car was axed almost a YEAR earlier than it's G-body sisters, despite it's sales popularity and high profit margin! I heard from some reliable sources back in 86 that it was embarrassing the corporate hirearchy, and making the 'vette look bad, which was of course, the premier GM performance car. Sounded like Groupthink and "stay off my turf" mentalities in full flight to me at the time... :af: Anyway, maybe I'm full of crap and the preceding is just a waste of space. My Dad bought a saw once that didn't "cut" the way he figured it should...the company was having a few well publicized problems at the time, lots of finger pointing going on between labour and management; his comment "...they all oughta quit their bitching and make a decent product." Advice that GM in it's entirety might do well to heed. :bglasses:
Anyone ever read John DeLorean's book "On a Clear Day You Can See GM"? Even though it was published back in the early '70's, It's an interesting read. He mentions endless meetings of top brass to discuss minute details like a peice of trim, instead of looking ahead to were the market is going.
Without a doubt GM's truck lines have been the ONLY thing keeping them completely out of the shitter. They may be "one of the best out there" but when there are only two other competitors.....third isn't tooo bad o No: When was the last time you tried one of the other brand trucks? I still have a '99 F-350 diesel, 250k miles on it now, still plows snow and hauls around a big trailer. The only thing it has ever needed was a water pump at 35k miles. I tried two GM trucks, the '01 came from the factory with a loose and leaking lower radiator hose. That was just the beginning. I dumped it when the dealer had to repair something, reflashed and fried the computer , then GM wanted me to foot the $1000 bill for a new computer....NOT. My '03 was no better, the famous Allison trans fried its fluid black three times in under 30k miles never having towed more than 4000 lbs. I am on my fourth Dodge and I don't have any issues with any of them. I don't think it is wise to even start comparing how hard they get used either. I am pretty sure I've got you there too since mine haul well over GCVWR on a daily basis into construction sites. I think it will take something like Chyrsler has done with the 300C, Magnum, Charger to win back sedan sales. These have been so successful that DC has dedicated a production line for the 6.1L 425 hp version of their Hemi. And it comes in cars $10-20k less than the Caddy. Better yet they have serious style, the 300C being a sweet looking gangster car.
Errr - this just in. Toyota plans to increase its US production (cars built in the US) from 1.4 million to 1.8 million for the '07 model year. Sounds to me like those are MORE manufacturing jobs IN THE US.
There is a much bigger problem in our country than GM laying off 30,000 workers. These big layoffs are a big part of the problem,though. The over all scenario is that our country ,as a Constitutional Republic , is being erased before our very eyes. We have politicians that take an oath of office to 'uphold the Constitution' and then ,totally disregard it. Our rights get trampled on more and more,each day. Just take a good look at the Patriot Act. If you really want proof, check out the CFR 's website. ( Council on Foreign Relations). Read the ' BUILDING A NORTH AMERICAN COMMUNITY ' document. When, not if, they get their way. We will not exist as a sovereign nation. North America will prevail as a nation then. A super highway is being built right now that will run from Texas,all the way to Canada. This highway corridor will use up 500,000 acres of land. Do I hear eminent domain ?USA,Canada, and Mexico will be integrated into a supernational authority. NAFTA will be brought to fruition. Remember NAFTA? CAFTA? How about the new FTAA ? ( Free Trade Area of the Americas).Read up on this stuff, and you will get a good idea of what is really happening. More of our jobs will be outsourced and many more high tech jobs will be filled by foreigners with H1 visas. Overall, Bush said it himself at the SPP ( Security and Prosperity Partnership for North America) website, Of the common commitment of the three eventually - to - be- dissolved North American nations"to markets and democracy,freedom and trade,and mutual prosperity and security". Last I checked, this country was founded as a REPUBLIC,not a DEMOCRACY. This is to be all implemented by 2010. Just around the corner folks! Enjoy our country while you can. I implore everyone here to check all of these facts out,if anything, you will be aware of what is happening. If you want to wait for FOX news to report any of this, it AIN'T gonna happen!! Our own president said that the borders of this country WILL BE DISSOLVED.
This arguement about who makes the best cars is like argueing about politics: no one will ever win. I don't know if this true or not but someone told me that back when GM went from the rear wheel drive cars to the front drive cars that they went from selling over a million cars a year to less than 500,000 a year. How many cars does GM sell a year now?
welp... If it wasn't for GMC & Chevy trucks, GM would have croaked already. They couldn't survive on just Caddy revenue/profitability alone.. The last 2 V6 Tundra's ('04 & '05) I bought for my shop, have surpassed ANY V8 1/2 ton Ford, Dodge or GM's, quality and load carrying wise, that I have had in the last 25 years... these Tundra trucks are tough. I overload them everyday. I can even tow my 22 boat with a V6 Tundra, and NOT need trailer brakes... try that with a new 1500 GM truck... :spank: my '04 Tundra got hit by an FE7 Volvo truck, which knocked the destroyed cab loose from the Toyo frame mounts, the right valve cover knocked the radio out of the dash, twisted the frame, bent the driveshaft, and buckled the bed... my driver unsnapped his seatbelt, got out, and called me, he came to work the next day, not one bruise, or scratch... try that in an F150. He insisted on another Tundra, or he wouldn't drive another day for me... he got an '05 Tundra that day... We have an '05 Lexus RX300 for the wifey, the dealer comes to my house in a suit and tie, gives me a Lexus loaner just to change the oil, returns the car to my door, cleaned, serviced, and detailed, every time. No cost. They even thank me for the service opportunity. Imagine that. BMW does the same for my youngest daughter's 325I. Acura does the same for my oldest daughter's TSX. :TU: I've yet to find a competent local dealer that knows jack s*** about my '06 Dmax for basic service. First oil change on the Dmax last week, and the dealer overfilled it by 2 extra quarts... no wonder it blue smoked terribly when I got it back... they say they put 12 quarts in every Dmax truck they service, the label clearly states 10 quarts w/filter.... :blast: the EGR valve is wacko now, a pulley is making noise today, it lost 40# of oil pressure hot in the last 2 weeks, and the truck *only* has 2,700 miles on it.... today's news >> something about a new service bulletin concerning spun cam bearings on the LLY engines ou: The 6.0 Ford PukeStroke blows head gaskets at 22-25k miles... routinely. I sure hope the new 1 ton Tundra can pull my car trailer, there may not be anything to choose from in 2 years... Jim
I really don't even know how to respond to this. Um - OK - for starters, Toyota never has been a Chinese company. Secondly, no matter where the company is headquartered, if employees of that company happen to be Americans, they get a piece of the pie - and since they happen to work for a company that can TURN A PROFIT I'm sure they'll be much better off than working for a poorly managed company like GM. Toyota probably even has profit sharing.
If GM hadn't burned so many people with a crappy product, they would not be in this mess. I had a brand new GM pickup I had in the shop 24 times in 22 months of ownership. I got rid of it, and now have a Toyota Tacoma. Think I am ever going back to GM? Nope. Is that Un-American? Nope. If it is a turd no matter where it is made, I am not buying it.
Well..I have an '03 Silverado 1500 Z71 that just rolled 126,000. Nothing has gone out on it yet! It still has the original brake pads, front and rear. I use this truck for some long heavy hauling. I towed a 5,800lb Imperial convertible to Ohio from Fla. in 95-106 degree heat this past July.No overheating ,transmission , or brake problems. Last March, I towed a '72 Centurion convertible from Conn. to Elmyra,NY . Loaded a Pontiac 428 engine/trans. and a bunch of other misc. stuff ,there and hauled it all back to Fla. at 75-80 mph. I don't see where GM builds junk. Previously, I had a '99 Chevy Tahoe 4dr that I put 200,000 mostly trouble free miles on .Same thing, towing stuff all over the country. I would not trust a Toyota,Nissan,Ford,Honda truck to last as long as fullsize GM trucks do. You guys keep buying your foreign junk. I will stick with GM trucks.
