I agree... but you know what. America ASKED FOR IT!!!! For how long have people been shopping and buying things based largley on the cost, not careing about where it was made or by who(sure, they complained about it all the way to the checkout line ou: )??? The public scream out for Better products at a cheaper price... well, we're learning that the only way to make that happen is to pay 20 Chinamen what it cost for 1 American (keep in mind that people only start buisnesses to MAKE MONEY). Unfortunatley, I think the ball has been rolling for too long and cannot be stoped.... soon, pretty much all of our manufacturing jobs will be over seas.... better learn how to be a salesman. Even me... being a salesman.. I see it everyday. Someone will walk through my doors.. and assume that because we offer a contracted service that we should just Hand them the Equipment for free(over and over again because they can't take care of it and break or lose it too):spank: Then they complain about expensive accessories, people at cust. service who cannot speak english, or not enough stores to get things done at...LOL. YOU CANNOT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. America has chosen to eat their cake, but it just soo happens that the cake is now made in CHINA. Anybody rember when America actually used to EXPORT to other countries...LOL. What is it now... they buy an american product, that's made in their home town...LOL. Problem is, that you actually can't pinpoint where it all started to go wrong... but it seemes to me that the attitude around here hase shifted from a "work hard so you can pay for what you want" (which is what made America soo great long ago), to what seemes to be now "I deserve the very best, for the very least, and I should only have to work as long as I get what I think I'm worth" really though... I'm crying on the inside, as the only hope I can sustain for my children is that they're smart enough to become Doctors... as that's going to be one of the few jobs that's left in the US.
There is a problem with cooking oil in some Toyota and Chrysler v6's (Sebrings). It is a maintenance problem, associated with too long of intervals between oil changes but several toyota models are not forgiving in this respect. From what I recall, it had something to do with high cylinder head temperatures destroying oil which is already severly degraded from lack of maintenance. Toyota has been silently repairing some of these vehicles even though its mainly the owners fault. Our motor pool mechanic has seen two Siennas with cooked moters in the last year. Do an internet search and you'll find the testimonies.
Yep, some Toyota's do cook oil and it developes into SLUDGE. However, they sent out 1000's of letters to effected owners in 2000, offering complete repairs for owners at NO charge. We have performed repairs on engines and spent at least $500,000 on these repairs. EVERY SINGLE engine has the same story though...over-extended oil change intervals. The excuses are amazing! Not one, I mean NOT ONE, of our loyal customers have had a oil sludge issue...and we are a busy dealer. It kills me to do a $3000.00 repair for some idiot who changes thier oil every 10,000 miles, and has 90,000 miles on thier vehicle. Not fair :af: Some Toyota owners are beyond spoiled if you ask me. We had a Sienna towed in one time with a blown up engine, it had 35,000 miles on it, and get this, the ORIGINAL factory marked oil filter on it. The guy was baffled as to why the engine died. Toyota bought the entire $6000.00 repair! ou:
I sell plenty of parts every day. That's what I do for a living. Plenty of good cars an trucks out there, too. I do see more domestics than imports for the larger mechanical repairs, in general. However, plenty of people just can't afford to repair the imports when they break, and just junk them instead. This is becoming true of domestics, too, but is common with imports. Few imports over 10 years old have book values high enough to support a tranny replacement or catastrophic timing belt failure, for instance. My customers with domestics just keep fixing their old cars and trucks. I have a friend who was given a 94 Hyundai in great shape. It ran fine, but needed a tranny. Bye bye, Hyundai, hello junk yard. With a $2000 price tag for a repair on a $1000 car, it was a no brainer. My area is heavy with light and medium duty trucks. We country folk love our pickups. I drive a V10 Dodge every day. I can tell you that our domestic trucks can and do go toe to toe with the import brands in terms of durability and abuse taking. Plenty of my customers are hot shotters, farmers, fishermen, etc. Chevy, Dodge, and Ford all build great trucks. They break down, for sure, but they swallow punishment with the best of them. Plenty of these trucks have 2-300000 miles and just keep on chugging. Repair costs are far less for domestics than imports when they occur. I grow tired of hearing whiners complain about their Toyotas, Nissans, etc. when repairs are needed. When we finally all end up in the "service sector", it won't matter who builds the best cars. No one will be able to buy them anyway. Strangely, the old days of marginal cars from Detroit were better than the new and improved stuff out there now. At least we all had jobs, and we could afford to buy the products we, as Amercians, were making, junky as they might have been. Thanks, Rudy E
So let me get this straight. I should buy a poorly designed, unreliable vehicle that will require me to spend money on it endlessly and fight constantly with the service department to get them to fix (or try and fix) problems with it in order to prop up a company whose leadership doesn't give a damn about designing a good car? Bullsh--! This country was founded on the principal of competition and survival of the fitest. If GM refuses to spend the needed money on quality they deserve to go under. Am I happy to see fellow Americans lose their jobs? Hell no, but I will NOT put my welfare at risk economically when it isn't necessary. I have co-workers who bought new GM trucks and have had them back at the dealer for repairs many times in less than a year. They buy a Toyota, and NO problems. For 30K+, I think asking for no major repairs in a 3-5 year period on a properly maintained vehicle is not asking much. People buy Honda and Toyota because of the quality. They pay MORE for it. NOT less. You see, GM will not change until it has to. It's needed to for some time, but now it has to. I will not support them on the false premise of saving American jobs. You aren't saving jobs, just prolonging the inevitable. GM has continued to turn out garbage,then told the angry customer tough luck when they bring it in to be fixed under warranty. People bought their junk, but in ever decreasing numbers due to getting burned by them. As a result, GM's market share has shrunk as has the number of employees. Had they focused on quality, they would not be in this mess. This is where the employees get what little blame they deserve. Why are they not demanding GM get it's act together? They are not helpless in this. If it's because they will lose the equivalent of a hand in employees, isn't that better than the whole patient? Besides, if it works, the hand can be re-attatched when demand picks back up. For anyone who thinks we are attacking the workers, think again. They are given crap to assemble. Is it any wonder the result is crap? At Japanese manufacturing plants in the U.S., we have shown that we can build cars equal to or better in quality than the Japanese! That tells me the problem lies not with the workers, but with executives who insist on pinching pennies by using inferior grade parts and compromised designs. We put a man on the moon. Don't @#$%*!~ tell me I have to settle for an unreliable American car!
At a point i agree with what you say whole heartedly. BUT.... where are you going to get the money to buy a good designed Or poorly designed vehicle if you do not have a job to pay for it. this time is coming and i feel badly for my boys. I WILL make sure that they are well educated on several subjects, to be very versitile in the job market. they are 1 1/2 and i am getting on this winter, believe it or not. they will not do what dad does. they will not have that choice.
No problem! I have no problem with my 03 Silverado truck and the wifes 2000 regal has been a good vehicle. We have a whole fleet of trucks at work from starting with SUV's all the way up to 7500 series dump trucks, all have been good vehicles. We punish the 2500 and 3500 trucks and they keep diggin. I dont think toyota makes a truck that will pull the stuff we strap to the back of our 3500 with a 8.0... I have never seen a Toyota that will pull a D-5 dozer, do they make one. I have not read this thread so forgive me if I am off topic. Just wanted to say that as far as I am concerned GM makes a good product at a fair price. Bert
I agree with you,Bert. To me,GM has made(and still makes) the best cars and trucks on the road. The cars that I have owned and still own,have been fantastic. Long live GM!
Vibe manual tranny I have the 5 speed manual tranny and it has worked flawlessly since day one when I bought it. GSX Eric :3gears:
I agree! My wife and I have had 5 GM SUV's over the past 15 years and never had a problem with any of them. We put a lot of miles on them and we park them outside in rough Midwest winters and they didn't even have rust issues. Just for fun, play the "Big Box Mart" video on www.jibjab.com It seems to be a spoof on WalMart, but I think the moral to the story applies to people buying foreign made cars. Hey...someday there will be only so many fast food jobs available for our children and granchildren, so let's think before we buy any product where the profits and jobs go offshore. Just my 2.
Part of that is up to us. The other part is up to the future generations. The global economy is upon us and we cannot reverse that. All we can do is arm ourselves with job skills and push for ACTUAL fair trade. As for those with good things to say about GM vehicles built in the last five years, it's good to hear. Not only does it give me some hope, it's nice to hear something other than how someone has had to take their new GM car/truck back to the dealer for major repairs. This might be a crazy idea, but if GM is serious about turning things around this may work. 1) Admit that in the past they had not made quality and reliability as high a priority as it should have been. Also that customer service was lacking then, as well. 2) Advertise how they are investing (or spending more money) in parts and designs that are meant to place their cars on par with the best Japanese stuff. 3) ACTUALLY spend more money on more durable, better engineered, parts and vehicle designs. 4) Tell the American public they understand why they have gone to the Jap stuff, and then ask for another chance. 4.5) Word the above so sleazebag trial lawyers don't use it as an excuse to sue them. 5) Make cars with styling and performance people WANT to buy. I could be totally wrong about the above working, but GM really has little to lose these days.
haha that reminds me , i saw that new honda ridgeline pulling a u haul trailer loaded with garden tools and it was dragging a$$. a friend of mine bought a tacoma. and traded it off for a 99 f350 with 220k miles bcuz the toyota couldnt pull a wet fart out of a 300 pound chics A$$. and theres nothing wrong with a toyota. great economy cars. just worthless for real work. But theres nooooo F'in way i'd spend $35,000 on the Avalon! i own 2 gms and theres 1 thing i can say that u probably cant... my car came with real rims and not hub caps! :moonu: Hope you enjoy the bill when a part needs replacing on that turdota
I have a 1998 Toyota Tacoma and it has been one of the best trucks besides my 1995.I owned a 1984 Chevy and that was the biggest piece of sh!%, I ever owned.I have pulled SEVERAL Buick GS, Skylark,and Taurus SHO cars home with my mighty 3.4 motor.Cruising at 75-80 mph with my truck and a tow dolly with a full size GS on the back.I even haul wood pellets by the ton on the back of this truck.A guy I work with "MR GM" won't even try that without putting his pellets on a trailer first.I have seen several horror stories from fellow workers, and I would buy a car (not GM) before a GM product they are now producing.1 guy even had a 2004 that had no oil pressure and made lower noise in the motor,He traded it for a Ford and where he traded it at,they found there was 1 main bearing that wasn't installed in it from new.A few others have had multiple recalls...front brakes,tailgate straps etc.I will say this..When the time comes to get a new truck for me,It damn well will be a Toyota.I have had hardly no maintenance needed except routine,even the front brakes held out to 89,000 miles.Ask members here like Beamer,Buick Trainee,TuBBeD,Delirius and others that have seen old Big Nasty in action about whether I am BS'ing anyone. :moonu: Pat :TU:
I do believe that GM has a decent line of trucks... I would seriously consider one... IF I WANTED A F'N TRUCK!!! GM has forgotten about their ENTIRE linup except for the Vette and Trucks (although... it seems that Cadillac is making a good comeback). Last new car I bought is a '05 MAZDA MPV... we looked at every auto man. out there to see what was the best deal.... it came down to the Saturn Relay.. and the Mazda (couldn't afford a Honda Odessy)... Wife went to a dealer to test drive one... I got the other... put them next to eachother in a parking lot and the Mazda won Hands down... It rode quieter, better interior design and materials, more options, more power, nicer wheel package and trim package... plus options that the GM car didn't and couldn't have.. Like a fold flat rear seat (well the GM did have that if you got the rear storage organizer...LOL, you lost 4inches of room that way), and the Mazda has power windows in the sliding doors that ROLL DOWN. Add all that up... plus the fact that it was $3K cheaper despite the "GM factory discount", and I now own a Mazda (with a ford engine...LOL). We'll keep it till it reaches its 5yrs/50K on it (when the FACTORY warranty expires... what's that about 4yrs/40K now GM??) Belonging to a Saturn board (when we were planning on the Relay), and after getting the Mazda, I can still go there and see all the problems they are having with the doors, PWR locks, Harmonic balancers that ARE NOT PROPERLY TORQUED ou: and whatever might come up... Not one issue with the Mazda, and I've already got 10K on it. GM has a long way to go!!! Don't get me wrong... I tried sooo hard to justify the Relay... but after getting the cars together, and seeing how much better the Mazda was (including the styling... the relay just looks goofy) I couldn't help it. I soo badly want a Pontiac Bonneville for myself... but Pont. is discontinuing that line, so I'll have to settle for a used one when its time for me....WTF. Every good car GM ever built has been Axed and replaced with Crap.... But that's just my opinion.... I'm sure GM will still continue to sell cars & trucks to people who prefer them. Just not me anymore, and thats sad considering that I've only owned GM cars up until '03. OH... BTW.... Exactly how much of the GM lineup is still American... I know the ASSEMBLY is, but what about the parts???
Comparing the towing capacity between a Tacoma and an F350 is like comparing the acceleration of a Ford Escort to Dodge Viper. Apples to oranges. I used to be a die hard buy only big three vehicles also. The last domestic I had was a 98 Ranger 4x4 which I purchased new. The thing was a POS that went back to the dealership a dozen times while it was under factory warranty. The service at the dealerships was about as good as the reliability of that truck. I traded the Ranger in for a Tacoma and never had any problems with it. We also have a 95 Tacoma that has 140,000 miles on it and the only non wear items that I have ever had to replace on it was a fan clutch at 120K and a broken rear leaf which is my fault for loading it with 2000 pounds of paver blocks. :grin: As far as comparing cost of replacement parts to domestic cars, the prices are pretty close for the most part, and the fact that the imports don't go through them as often means I'm money ahead. I just checked prices at NAPA online for front rotors for Chevy 1500 4x4 they are $94. For a Toyota Tundra 4x4 they are $88. Ceramic brake pads for the same Chevy $114. For the Tundra ceramic pads are $44. I used 2003 model years. So, for the most wearable and most often replaced parts of a vehicle the Toyota kicks the crap out of Chevy for cost. :TU:
