FI Tech "Go EFI 4" Self Tuning Throttle Body Injection Install Thread

Hated to hear another one of these stories Eric. I probably bought one of the first kits with the FCC direct from FiTech before Summit or Jegs even offered them. I'm in the middle of a complete re-construction of my '67 El Camino and never got to the point of installing mine. I helped Bob at Chevelles.com diagnose his problem with the FCC and it became apparent that FiTech had completely dropped the ball and kicked it out of the stadium with their FCC.

The problem lies in their vent...or lack thereof. They have never successfully stopped the fuel leakage out the vent. Couple this with the fact that trying to run a vent line back to the rear of the vehicle is a complete fail. One will have high and low spots in that line and you know full well that if any liquid escapes it will settle in the lowest point...you have just created a pee-trap under your vehicle...no more vent.

I unloaded my FCC recently without even giving it a chance to perform...the vent problem will never go away and it's a sure hazard venting it to atmosphere under the hood or anywhere up front given it's track record. I'll be installing a Tank's Inc. efi fuel tank in the El Camino this Friday and be done with it. I'm fairly certain the throttle body will prove to be a winner in the end...as long as that FCC is not plumbed into it.

Rich

 

I was wondering if you could just convert the FCC into a glorified surge tank? Run the mechanical pump into the FCC canister as usual then eliminate the checkball and just use the "vent" as a full time return line for the mechanical pump? Running a simple low pressure return would save on having to put an electric pump in the tank and you could tap into the fuel tank nearly anywhere for that return. The FiTech ECU could play the PWM game with the electric pump to keep the injectors happy. I am probably oversimplifying this as I have not read much about the actual installation of the FCC. The actual implementation of my devious plan may not work....

 

Evidently not Ken because that is exactly what these FCC's are trying to do now...and failing miserably at it.

 

I left out the part where you would knock out the check ball setup so that it could work as a true return.

 

Hey Eric,
That is my thread there you have linked.
As of right now...
53 pages long
792 replies
57,000+ views
After receiving an email Monday, I actually spoke to Ken Farrell, the owner of FiTech, just yesterday, for more than an hour about their products, mainly the Fuel Command Center.

My story is a mirror image of yours.
Started out great, then turned to headaches...
Sorry that you are going through, what looks to be, the exact same BS I have already went through with my FiTech Fuel Command Center.

My problems were also blamed on everything BUT the Fuel Command Center
- My mechanical pump was failing
- My vent was not ran properly
- My feed line was restricted
- My FCC was too close to my radiator, causing fuel to boil
- blah, blah, blah....etc...

Ironically, while the FCC was being "fixed", I swapped back on a carb, and car's RELIABLE PERFORMANCE instantly returned.
Car ran great, never nosed over, never went lean, never any fear of breakdown on the side of the road, as it's been for the 3 years since I built this new engine.

My car is a factory big block 1971 Chevelle
Came from GM with 3/8" feed line, and 1/4" vapor/return line
Car runs low 11's at 4200# race weight, with the same fuel lines, and Holley 110GGPH mechanical pump, that they said couldn't supply the FCC, or had some other delivery issue.
First off, I am not a hobby mechanic. I do it for a living, and this is my 35th year doing so...Have always had some sort of strong running "toy" for the last 30+ years, so nothing I do, or have done, is a shot from the hip, or totally clueless for the most part. I've already made and learned from the rookie mistakes over these years. I found myself getting more and more angry with FiTech's "tech support", as being someone who builds, races and tunes their own cars, and also KNOWS when his stuff just isn't right...and most of us here can make the same claim, I'd think.

Anyway, Car ran great for a week or two, then started nosing over after 2 or 3 WOT runs, on the street.
Mine actually left me stranded on 3 different instances...pissed off was not the words...

Luckily, I have a rollback at my shop, and was able to be rescued each time.
Luckily, I have the ability to do all my own mechanical work...
Imagine having these issues, and having to call AAA, and/or waiting for 3 hours, then paying to be towed, then paying someone to keep trying to diagnose a problem with a faulty part...I'd be well beyond furious...although I was pretty darn mad doing it all myself, I admit, lol...

It (the Fuel Command Center, aka the FCC) was basically no different when "updated", then as it was, originally...
Made 2 or 3 nice WOT passes, then wouldn't accept fuel, leaned out, and filled vent line with liquid gasoline, in effect cutting off the vent, stalling the engine.

The "update"...They did away with the check ball, which was, from Day 1, an un-necessary complication to the whole system anyway, as per the owner.

Unfortunately, the vent system is still flawed. As HandOverFist said, the vent line, unless you have it come out of the top of the FCC, and remain higher than both the gas tank, and the FCC, will 100% have liquid fuel trapped inside of it, which closes off the vent...

All the other headaches and drama can be read on the Chevelle site. I'm getting mad just thinking about it again...lol.

My 3rd and final FIX, was to install a TanksInc setup, and the car, once again, is running flawlessly...

I was lied to by one of their techs named Bryce.
He specifically told me that my FCC was installed on a "test car" and driven.
Last night, the owner, told me they use a test engine....quite a different scenario.
Owner assured me that he is going to install my FCC on his personal Cuda, (he said it's 700+ RWHP) the green one on their website, and give it a thorough real world test...including WOT dyno runs...

He is trying to replicate the issues we both have had...

I'm curious to see where that goes...

 

It appears that the customer base are the Beta testers.

The price is low because the R&D was not completed to work out all of the bugs.

The buyers find the problems so the manufacturer can eventually fix them.

Common scenario to get products to market fast, but not good.

 

No doubt, or debate of that fact. :beer

 

I personally never trusted that Fuel Command thing. uzzled:

Seems like a good concept...but certainly seems they haven't engineered it properly. :spank:

I, for one, have only ever intended on using a Tanks Inc. tank and pump when I make the switch to EFI. :TU:

Now, a full fuel system seems to be the only real option...if you want it to work anyway. o No:

It seems to work well with a proper fuel system.

 

I was skeptical about the FCC myself...and then pissed to found out AFTER all the issues, that the TanksInc tank, pump and sending unit kit was only $100 more...add in $100 worth of fittings and some line and problem solved...ou:

Here's how pressurized my Fuel Command Center was getting, after a WOT run...
It was forcing the check ball to block off the vent, but you'll see why it was stuck in the vent in this video...

https://youtu.be/nWjTebvY5gc

 

For anyone running an O2 sensor, a spark drop out WILL read lean. In the datalogs, if the duty cycle and PW are not dropping and it suddenly goes lean, it's a spark issue. If the duty cycle and PW are not dropping and it gradually goes lean (you don't feel the miss-fire until it's really lean) then it's a fuel system issue, like a plugged filter or the pump isn't able to keep up. If the duty cycle and PW are suddenly dropping, then it's an ECU issue, something in the programming is commanding it to stop or drop fueling, typically loss or significant noise in the Tach signal, which again ends up being an ignition issue.

I don't know enough about what side options are in the tuning of FITech, but there are random other options in some ECU's that will cut fuel or spark if set up wrong, like I have my cut fuel and spark at 3,000rpm when the engine is cold, and that gradually rises with coolant temp (there is a 70% TPS override on that incase of needed panic acceleration). But this type of thing is pretty rare to encounter if you are not messing with obscure settings.

 

Supplying fuel isn't complicated. I've used iron pipes, square tubing, mechanical lift pumps, electric lift pumps, etc. Surge tanks are pretty forgiving. Just need to get fuel into them and just need the high pressure pump to pick up from the bottom of them. The only reason I run a return line back to the gas tank on one is to let the lift pump run at free flow rates. The only check valves I run in my system these days are the built in one in the fuel pump(s).

Edited to add pictures of the crap I've successfully used. I'd be curious to see what the inside of the FCC looks like.

Plumbed this together, ran this way for three years. Yes that iron pipe is my surge tank. It is fed off the stock 455 mechanical pump.


Eventually moved it to the firewall behind the inner fender well, under the brake booster. Ran here for a couple years and two Drag Weeks.


The current one made of square tubing, mounted to the frame next to the gas tank. Now I use an electric lift pump back at the gas tank. Been running this for about a year now and on Drag Week 2015. No issues, other than appearances, with it at all.


An idea of the change. The one on the left is the one I installed in my '69 Firebird.



How's this for an over complicated mess on my Firebird, but functions flawlessly.




Hence the reason I'd be curious to know what they have going on in the FCC because it shouldn't be that complicated. And for what it's worth though, I'll probably eventually get a new fuel tank for the Firebird with an intake pump, just to clean up my mess. But these skeleton's in the closet show what can be gotten away with and still function perfectly. And FYI, I have near 100,000 miles on the Skylark's systems with out issue.

 

Just don't let Homeland Security get a look at it! Have to give you all sorts of credit for outside the box thinking.

 

Most people who have had Fuel Command Center issues, use the "Quick Start" settings, which only requires inputting Engine CI, RPM limit, Idle RPM, and CAM setting, which is a very basic 1-4, mild to wild guesstimate, which actually seems to work well. Most people have had their issues without any inputs or parameters changed whatsoever, myself included.

Unless you choose to, the FiTech setup does not control spark whatsoever, it only controls fueling. Myself, I chose to use the distributor setup that has worked great for me for the last 3 years...439ci big block Chevy, w/44 degrees total timing, 26 initial, with an 18 degree MSD advance plate stop, all in by 2800...

Bottom line is there is little chance of input errors by the user. Most everything is by default, and the rest is self learning, self adapting. There's plenty of parameters that you CAN change, (idle, low load, high load AFR's (3 rpm ranges of each that are interpolated between the others), IAC speed of correction, cold start, warm-up, and hot start fueling, etc....Not nearly as many as say, my HPTuners software used on another vehicle, but pretty impressive nonetheless. Most options are not needed for probably 90% of those that use this setup. Heck, mine learned a decent idle around a 3/8" open vacuum leak...lol.

Supposedly, and this coming from the owner of FiTech, there's a float from Braswell (the big name carb guy), a needle and seat from Quick Fuel, a no-name 340lph pump, and a USA sourced tank assembly. Like you said, nothing to them...

I know on more than one occasion the car would not restart unless I unplugged the vent hose, which proved to me that the vent was not working as designed, or intended. I also know that my "vapor vent fitting" was pumping out LIQUID fuel pretty steadily, but only after a few WOT runs. At worst, it spewed out 6 ounces of gas, into an old Mobil 1 oil jug, in a 2 mile NORMAL drive...It's also all but impossible for the underhood temp to be hot enough, in less than 10 minutes, to boil fuel out of the vent...

Mine was 100% a fuel issue.
I know this because the same pump and lines easily supplied the carb, both before and after issues with the FCC.
I also have had ZERO issues with fuel delivery, nosing over, or going lean, since installing the new TanksInc setup...
Lord knows I have beat on this thing like a madman since getting it back together for the umpteenth time.

Basically, If there's an obvious performance issue with the addition of TWO separate items, and then the issue is 100% gone with ONE of those items being removed, it's an easy claim/diagnosis to make, that the one removed item was, without any doubt or question, the source of the problem...

WHY, or WHAT was happening? I have no idea....like you said, it's a simple, almost primitive idea...

 

I've seen home made surge tanks that use a Holley float bowl bolted to the side of a container as the inlet. I'm not even sure why a vent would be required, as I've plugged my return off as a test, letting the lift pump dead head against it like a full carb bowl, and it ran just fine. The fuel injectors become the "vent" at that point, but once the air is sucked out, or air marginalized to the very top, short of boiling the whole container it shouldn't have any effect on running.

As someone who doesn't own one, I'm arm chairing for sure, but I'm also hoping by throwing my thoughts out there that one of you may be able to further pin down the troubles you are seeing. Hence my first post today talking about how various problems show themselves on datalogs.

 

:beer Myself, and I'm sure everyone else, appreciates the feedback...especially since like someone said, we seem to be the R&D team who is BETA testing this setup.

I was hoping and wishing that when all was said and done that this thing would have worked CONSISTENTLY, and I gave it every chance I could, trying everything that anyone suggested to no avail...then ran out of patience.

Sometimes it's best to cut the losses and move on, so that's what I did.

Now with a dedicated EFI tank and fuel system, I kick myself for not doing it this way from the start.

 

Kind of misleading...a carb float bowl is vented to atmosphere which is why it works.

 

No, the float bowl is vented because it needs the pressure differential between atmosphere (the vent) and the venturi to move the fuel into the air stream (lower pressure). Not to keep the bowl filled.

 

Any of these type of fuel systems just seem way overpriced to begin with uzzled: ...then you add the problems with FiTech's... :spank:
As you said, for just a little more money you can have a proper fuel system. :TU:

BTW...how is the performance of yours in comparison to your carburetor...now that you have a proper fuel system. ET...mph...mpg???

 

Sorry to hear about all the issues you guys are having. I strongly recommend using a tanksinc setup with aeromotive fuel pump. Aeromotive sells it as a kit now too I believe. Stock appearing powdercoated tank, whisper quiet fuel pump good to around 800 or so horsepower. The FCC is a great way to essentially bolt on a fuel system. It just seems fitech has over complicated their system and won't believe they have done something wrong

 

My big plan when I bought this setup was to have a nice back to back comparison. On of About December 12, 2015, a Saturday, I went to a Test and Tune and made several passes.
The following Tuesday, I ordered the FiTech TB and FCC.

It arrived 2 days later, a Thursday, from Jegs, and I installed it Friday, so I could go to the tracks last Test & Tune the next day.

Everything went great, car ran great, idled and drive great, and I was ready...

The next day it dropped down to like 38 degrees and since that was the last day of the season, they stayed closed....

Then all the BS with the fueling...
I put the carb back on and left it on so I could drive the car while they had my FCC for warranty repair...

So, then came Plan B....
Get my fixed FCC back and reinstall it, but leave the carb on and go to the track....make 2 or 3 runs, and then swap the throttle body back on and make 2 or 3 more passes...

Sounds great, right?

Well common sense took over and I figured I best make sure the EFI was working right and race with the efi FIRST, then swap the carb back on...

Well...the FCC did the same things, infuriated me and the next day was track day,.so stepped back and made the decision to get the TanksInc tank...

Saturday, was our local tracks big Streetcar Shootout and knowing I'd only get 2 qualifying passes, it wouldnt tell me anything anyway....and it got rained out....lol.

So fast forward to Today...also a T& T day...and there's 20-30 mph winds, so I'm screwed yet again...

Hopefully next Wednesday I'll get some efi runs...

Cliff Notes :
Car runs fantastic and is super responsive.
MPG has not been able to be determined due to all the problems.
ET and MPH should hopefully be acquired in a week...

I have run the car enough to know exactly what it runs.

11.31@117 with 4.10 gears
11.43@117 with 3.90 gears
11.77@115 with 3.08 gears

The 3.08's are in it for the time being, so the goal is a 11.7x @114-115 using just 1st and 2nd gear of my Turbo 400, like best numbers with the carb....