I can't believe I've not done this before; it was probably out of my absolute certainty that the engine was original when I bought the car. But under quite a few layers of Buick red paint I found some numbers where they were supposed to be. Only thing, it appears the folks at the plant didn't do much of a job stamping those numbers into the steel. Knowing the first three characters were supposed to he 42Z, I can see that (although it looks more like "427"). Then we have the 6-digit sequence number from the VIN, which for me should be 111961. Well you can see the 111, but not much after that. Reallly, the last three digits, from what you CAN see, don't look like 961 at all. The 4th digit could be a "9." But the fifth sure looks like the top of a "5," and I have no idea where to start with the 6th digit. I've always called my car "numbers matching," at least in reference to the motor, tranny, and rear end. But if somebody was looking for proof, I doubt this would hold up. My only consolation is that I bought the car when it was about 7 years old, and the engine compartment was painfully original appearing, and the car actually had a burned valve when I got it. Just for the record, did service replacement engines have any numbers stamped there? John
John, "Just for the record, did service replacement engines have any numbers stamped there?" I have a factory booklet, at home, that shows the replacement numbers/locations for 72 motors. I will look them up, but I know they did not look like that. It looks like the stamp was really angled when struck. Get the date codes/casting numbers off the block, intake, etc. and call me some night. I should be able to tell if it's correct with that info. I have seen numbers stamped like that before, so don't worry. Duane
Ummm Try a magnifying glass. I can see the how that could be a "961" though. :Smarty: I read somewhere (here or the GSCA) several times that replacement blocks did NOT get the vin stamped on it. o No: And this makes sense to me, because how could the factory keep stamping blocks with the same vin, legally they'd run into troubles. I recall when I 1st looked at mine, all I saw were ONES. Once cleaned, a 4 & H appeared where there was 3 ones. 41H1.....looked like 11111. :laugh: I think they hit that one on Monday. :laugh: Seriously, I'd bet that is the original. If you ever rebuild it, the numbers jump right out after cleaning. :bglasses: And if that 5th digit is a 5, they mixed up the engine & installed the wrong one on the line. The vin is too close. Check you trans if it is original, then it will match the engine. :Smarty:
Ummm Sevice replacement heads have a different number casted in them with a casting date (raised #'s, :Smarty: not stamped), so it is very easy to tell them from originals...
Thanks for the info & encouragement, Duane and Dan. Duane, I will call you. I must admit, I wasn't really worried, as I can't imagine this not being the factory motor. But that sure doens't look like "961" to me.... I talked long and hard to the original owner when I bought it, and she hadn't done anything to it at all (and I mean, AT ALL, except for an Earl Scheib paint job a couple years before). This is really all for fun's sake, and it's a bit of an education, to boot! :bglasses: John
I figured while I was hot, I might as well at least LOOK at the block deck to see the production code stamping. Lo and behold, under yet more red paint, there were the numbers, plain as day. I knew it would be a WF, meaning non-Stage 4V. And the date code appears to be 2 I 3. The procudction code's visibility raises another interesting question: how it managed to survive two supposed "rebuilds." Also, I believe the cover is original. I had bought a NOS one before Mr. Catlin rebuilt it the last time, and he said I didn't need it. He said he made a couple small mods to the oil passages, and put the pump booster plate on it. I've also included a pic of the cover stampings.
Oh This "2 I 3" is not a date code, but some internal Buick code we have yet to decipher. :Brow: The block casting date is located on the front face of the block on the passenger side, on the lip that the timing cover mounts to. Should look like "A 15" (Jan 15), a letter between A to M and followed by one or two numbers for the day. When was your car built? :bglasses:
The block does not neccesarily have to be decked to be rebuilt. Its a good idea to true things up, but many rebuilds amount to honing, new bearings and rings... At least the numbers are there, that is a good thing! later Tim
Actually, Dan, I didn't realize that code was uncharted territory. Duane, how can you sleep at night? :laugh: The Fisher cowl tag shows Jan. '72, and the certification label is Feb. '72. The build sheet date is 1-28. I have a little more documentation on my Web page, and I'm going to add this information to it (plus anything I learn when I call Duane this weekend). I'm going to have to check out that date code on the block. Also, I have a NOS water pump with a 72 casting date; it doesn't match the front cover, but it's cool at least it's the same date as the car. Gotta' take what you can get after over 30 years!
John, Actually I sleep very well. I have been thinking about doing an article for the BPG Buildsheet about common date codes. It would include the date coding systems for engine pieces, frames, sheetmetal, and other parts. I can even go into some date codes for later cars, like the Gran Nationals. Some of their codes look like part numbers, but are actually date codes. The article would probably run over several issues, what do you think? Duane
I think it's a great idea. There have been smatterings and blurbs about date codes in all sorts of places, but to bring them into one definitive article would be a real help to folks interested in such things. BTW, Beth sez to please take it easy on the snoring.... :sleep:
It would be very interesting. I have seen a few things now that are very ususual that I want to share with you regading the date codes on the intakes versus the cast dates for the intakes and the block.
Ok.... I see the 71, but where do you get the November part Duane? o No: I see a 1B and maybe a D in a small circle, obviously not it.... I tried to count the little dots in the 71 clock, yet I only see about 5. ou: Yeah, sounds like a good subject for "The Build Sheet". :TU: :laugh: :TU:
Dan, There is only 1 date code on an intake, although there is a time built code on the inside. Maybe Jim was referring to the proximity of the intake dates vs other cast engine parts. John, "BTW, Beth sez to please take it easy on the snoring.... " No doubt about that one. Duane
Ok, now I got it If I read mine correctly, "H 8", then a little arrow which can point to either a single or double dot near the 455 (mine points to the single and I assume it means 1st or 2nd shift), then in the valley, I have a clock with one dot having a 2nd dot above it (I assumed it referenced the 12 o'clock position, which then has an arrow pointing at 3 O'clock. So does that then mean my block was cast on August 08, 1st shift at 3 O'clock? o No: Jim, Body date 09A.
Jim, "That is correct. plus their dates relative to the body build date on the cowl tag." Well I have seen that "time period" change depending on when and which plant produced the cars. Duane
