I am new to the board so first off I would just like to say hello to everyone. I would like to build a regal or cutlass g-body sometime in the not too distant future. I am aware that the Buick and Olds big blocks are different animals, but I would like to ask what the important diffences are in the motors, such as strengths and weaknesses. I know this is a Buick board so answers may be a bit biased, but I would like to hear what you guys think of how these two big blocks compare. Thanks for your input.
This is by NO MEANS a biased forum. We ALL love BUICKS more than any other motor!:laugh: I've had both and they both are a little antiquated, but the Buick market has come a lot further in the development of aftermarket parts that REALLY work. We'll soon have a choice of iron or alluminum aftermarket blocks with all the bugs worked out. Most of the new Olds aftermarket stuff is still old fashioned an needs more research. Just my opinion.
I think the biggest differences between them are 1) The Olds is a longer stroke with a smaller bore. 2) The cylinder heads are different because of the smaller bore and what it allows in the valve department before it gets shrouded. All the parts are brand specific to both engines I believe. Edelbrock makes alum. heads for the Olds but not the Buick. The Olds guru I believe is Mondello and they can be made to run very very well with the right parts. I don't think you would be dissapointed with either one. Maybe one of the other guys on the board will jump in with more info. Mike D.
Dick Miller seems to be well respected as well. http://www.dickmillerracing.com/ If you decide to do Olds, hang out here http://www.realoldspower.com/ for a while.
Go to the olds website @ www.realoldspower.com and ask them the strength and weakness of their 455. They will be more than willing to help. BTW, I wouldn't say the word Mondello on their site:grin: .
I've heard that their (Olds) big blocks have more oiling problems than the Buicks. Especially when you start making some power. I still remember the Car Craft shootout, Buicks were the workhorse!:TU:
The word "Mondello"(read:"sell you tons of crap that you don't need and won't work") is the reason I'm all Buick now. A lot of those ROP guys feel the same way. I have a local friend that spent $900.00 that's right $900.00 with Mondello on a reworked Torker that was supposed to drop .5 right off the bat. He told them everything in his combo. It slowed him down .3 with lots and lots of tuning. What a real POS!:moonu:
It is alot easier to make 500 Hp with the buick than Olds. Olds dosn't have the good rod/stroke ratio like buick, the most undersquare motor of all manufactures. Heads don't flow like the buicks. Olds motor is heavier. Olds came in dead last in the big block shootout. Buick came in first followed by chevy, mopar, ford, pontiac then olds. This only applies to the 455 cui. motor. Olds 350 may be the best small block.
I too was an olds person. I found it alot easier to make power with a buick 455.possibly because of better flowing heads(stage 1)
buddy's got an olds With the money i got in my buick, he probably has in his olds and they used to run neck and neck. Then I met Jim Weise and he had to make an appointment with N20.
The Buick isn't any weaker and weighs a hell of a lot less(actually only about 25lbs. more than a small block chevy). Buick has the best rod stroke ratio of a 450+ cube big block. It's heads flow better(and thats just the stock ones, TA heads will make those edelbrock heads look like junk.) And yes buicks take oiling mods but to go fast with a olds you need a good oil pump, pressure reducers to the mains, and everthing else drilled in the block. And anybody(at least on this site will tell you witch is better) By the way before you think I'm biased I own both and a pontic and a chevy.
I'm not trying to change the subject, but why do you feel that the 350 Olds may be the best small block? I always hear it's the 350 chevy.
Olds 350 The boys in Lansing built a string of really hot 350 motors - coded W31 - in the day. They went into A-body cars (F85/Cutlass). The engines were basically blueprinted at the factory - components were hand picked and the motors specially assembled. The cars had really crummy exhaust manifolds because the factory assumed thay would all be race cars and get headers. There are a couple of them running in the Pure Stock racing now, they are pretty darn fast for stock smallblock cars, I think one of them has cracked into the 12's on bias ply tires and with the stock manifolds.
I agree to the comments about the Olds 455 being underneath the Buick's. After all, the Buick 455 is only a bit heavier than a small block Chevy..........and I swear that it seems every big block Olds article I read, the power output isn't as impressive as say a Buick's, with the same amount of $$$ put in. Think about this..........other than more recent news from T/A and such buick power enthusiasts, Buick big blocks have been using the same 2 (are there more?) head designs since the late 60's. I swear Chevy guys have 45-60 new friggin' designed heads to choose from every year...........prolly more...........and we still give those Chevy boys nightmares. :Brow: Edelbrock makes those Olds heads now.........but Olds is just as limited as Buick in terms of parts variety. I'm not too familiar with the Olds crowd.........but Buick's crowd is like a Fraternity/Sorority in a way. Always helpful people who are willing to lend a hand or give out advice. That in itself is priceless. In fact, I think every Buick guy cries :ball: when a board member breaks the news of a buick-involved accident.
True. BEARLY! 4.057"bore/3.385"stroke for the Olds and 4.00"bore/3.48"stroke for the Chevy. The Buick 350 is very close to "square" 3.800"bore/3.85"stroke. It also has the highest torque rating of any small block, 410lbs.ft @ 3200 RPM and 315 max. brake H.P. @ only 4800 RPM's. The Buick 350 is also the lightest of all of the 350 c.i. motors at 450lbs fully dressed with iron intake and exhaust manifolds! Small block Chevy weighs 575lbs! Don't forget, more TORQUE and LESS WEIGHT = QUICKER ET!! And that's only Lil' Bro', DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON BIG BLOCK:af: :blast: :stmad: :spank: :blast:
Thanks for the replies fellas. Seems to me the Buick is the way to go. I am aware that TA has new aluminum castings for the buick, I was wondering if anyone here has any experiences with the products from Poston Enterprises. I work in autoparts (now that i have my degree hopefully not much longer) and it sux that "off brand" makes and motors get little support from aftermarket producers, but then again it is a business and you need a large market to make R and D and production wothwhile. But at least there are some new products out for the Buick. I am not real familiar but i remember hearing that the part of the Buicks oiling problem lies in the timing cover mounted oil pump, and the cam bearings starving for oil. What are the common methods used to cure these oiling problems?
Hi sandman, I've had several encounters with Poston, though none lately. Ok, but far from impressive Bought a bad torque converter from them once, they wouldn't refund money but I got a free S-Dividerou: whatever. Anyone want to buy it? TA performance has a BRAND NEW casting complete front cover w/modified oil pump. Have machine shop install full-grooved cam bearings, Poston or TA, with oil feedholes relocated to the proper position. Hope this helps you, get a catalog from poston, TA has web site, read whatever you can find, and like most things in life, add 1 grain of SALT!! :grin:
Thanks again for all of the information and educated opinions. I have had a special place in the heart for buicks for a long time. My first car was a 1980 buick regal with a 350 buick 2 bbl out of a 70 or 71 skylark. That car was so simple to work on and still moved with a tired motor. But my interest in buicks was cemented when i went to a friends house to tune up the regal. The guy has a black on black 70 skylark 455 stage one. It was a factory special order with no power brakes or steering, a 3.90 rear , and the m21 close ratio. After a ride in the car my idea of power was redefined, i had driven and ridden in small block powered mustangs and camaros, but i had never experienced something like that before. Although some guys on here would consider it blasphemy, I would like to drop the 455 buick into a 82 to 87 cutlass. I prefer the cutlass over the regal because it is easier to find a bucket seat, floor shift, ralleye pack cutlass than to find a comparable regal. to the best of my knowledge only the GNs and t-types came with buckets and a floor shift. Thanks again for the info, and i would like to hear some more opinions on the original question i posted.
If you are still considering the Olds...don't let the oiling problems scare you off...in actuality they are a probably a less ($-wise) to deal with than on the Buicks. You're gonna buy an oil pump on a rebuild so a few bucks more for a hi-volume Melling or Milidon is no big deal. Main bearing restrictors are dirt cheap. Notching the rods...cheap again. Probably need a higher capacity pan....Toro pan or bigger (Moroso, Milodon again). On the Buicks you are going to have to deal with drilling out oiling passages on certain blocks and possible a new T/A front cover-price one of those. Looks like there may also be one or two other aluminum heads coming out for the Olds motors-not from Edelbrock. I know plenty of people pushing Olds big blocks pretty hard with some or minimal oiling mods....and they are experiencing no problems whatsoever. These are street/strip type motors that I'm speaking of. Like em both, own em both. Patton Glade
