According to Dave Kleiner the average frame off is costing about $55-65K to be done show quality correct. If you have some talents to do some of the work the costs come down. Therefore if a car cost on an average $55K the cars value increases that much too from where the car is. OK IM not sure if I said that right. If someone takes a decent car say worth $10K then adds the $55K that makes it worth on paper $65K. Now if its a $50 car and you add $55K is the car worth $55k??? Not nessiasarily. But as I and others have seen BB converts are worth alot more as numbers matching cars than non too. (add more value to your car if it is N.M.) OK Im done for now. Cars are what people will pay for it value to me.
There aren't too many concours restored non-stage converts out there for sale that I have seen to guage prices on. Now granted, they may not be fully restored, but there are quite a few very nice numbers matching converts out there right now for around $20K and under. Here are two http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/2/8/66268328.htm http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/6/7/73831667.htm And this totally kills me as I realize I'm going to have over $30K invested in my hardtop by the time it's done. But I can't afford $20K all at once to buy a car that's basically done. And I wish I had yours to restore instead of my hardtop. All that aside, there's no telling what any car today is going to be worth in a few years.. and in my opinion they should be restored because we like them rather than as an investment.
gs convert i was looking at that car too and i was thinking i would offer him 1800 for the car as thats probably what he paid for it . 100,000? maybe if all original perfect "10" car and had 40,000 in trunk. o No: andy
Michael, the flaw in your logic is that you are confusing "investment" with "value". Just because someone has invested $55k in a car, doesn't mean its value is $55k. It is a rare car that has a "value" far in excess of the original investment to get it there, right after it is done. It takes time for the car to appreciate for its value to surpass the investment, or the starting investment has to be real low. This is why most restorers don't buy cars and then restore them and re-sell them. They have realized that it is very expensive to make a car concourse quality, and then the car usually costs more than you can sell it for. When they do restore a car and sell it to make money, they usually try to start with a lower initial investment (as a percentage of the total cost and expected market value). I think I have seen Jim W. say that more than once. So why do people spend so much on the car when it won't be worth the investment when they are done? Usually the answer is simple. They love the car. They lost track of the cost. They didn't think it would be that much, and couldn't stop once they started. They weren't doing it to sell and make money. The way you "invest" in a musclecar is to buy it from someone who has already restored it, and is now selling it for significantly less than their investment. Or, you buy the car that was restored a while ago, so that it has had time to appreciate. At the time of the restoration, the car was probably worth less than the investment, but if you "stop" the investment (ignoring cost of capital and lost opportunity costs, etc.) and park it for years and keep it up, maybe the value will rise so that it exceeds your investment. Usually takes time, or a fast appreciating market place. Can you restore this car (or any other car that is in comparable condition and price, not "picking" on Michael's car) and still make money? Probably, but it will need to be done over time, and you will probably need to do some of the work yourself (and you will not be "paid" market rates for your time). If you have to pay someone market rates to do it for you, than the only people who will make money are the seller of the car, the guys doing the work, and the guy who buys it from you at a discount and then re-sells it. If you are buying a car to make money, buy one already done or close to it. If you buy a project car, you do it for the LOVE!!!!!!!!!! Just my $.02, which I won't be making any money on either.
Sorry that post got so long. Also it is certainly not meant to be a "slam" on Michael, nor are my comments necessarily directed at this car in particular, just my thoughts on buying and restoring project cars.
the car has pw, ps, pb, and i believe all 4600 series cars had a tach, so i wouldnt call it a stripper. did somebody say $ 1800.00 ? a hood is $600.00, a 3:42 posi is $600.00, and a 70 bb fan shroud is $600.00 , $1800.00 would buy three nice pieces, but to buy the car for that ? maybe 15 years ago. richard lasetter made a good point about value of these cars a while back. as long as people keep offering them cheap, they will never go up in value. henry
Like I've said before, not everyone wants them to go up in value (not skyrocketing anyway). For the most part, Buick guys still own the desirable Buick cars. It will always be that the cars that are 1 of less than 300 will be the most valuable, and they will be more likely to be owned by non-Buick investors. I don't want to lose money on my car, but I don't start a restoration thinking I'm going to get a 35%IRR. Car and parts prices vary all over the place in different parts of the country. I bought a nice 71 hood last year locally for $200. I just bought a 3:42 posi two weeks ago in Montana for $300 and I've never paid any more than $100 for a fan shroud. Now there is a guy locally that has been trying to sell a 70 GS hood for $600 for 6 months!! I know prices have gone up a lot in the past few years, but you can still find parts for reasonable amounts of money if you just look (old fashioned), rather than look at ebay. And there are a lot more parts than there are cars left, and that is where the value will be. Pretty hard to reproduce a car.
granted, the prices i gave are ebay prices, and towards the upper end, indeed parts are often found for far less, but these prices can be gotten. i guess my main point is just that $1800 is nowhere near what the car is worth. in a way, i would like to see the values go down, since collector car thieves would be less likely to mess with them. i dont care for these investor types either, it would be nice if they were only owned by true gearheads. i have lost money on nearly every car i ever owned but, eh, it was fun. henry
Sounds ok BUT. The buy it now price is a little high. Because of the condition it is in and all the work it needs to bring it back. When all the work is completed and every thing is restored on it you will have a lot of time and a nice chunk of money in it. BUT will you be able to get all that money back when you go to sell it. I think so But it may be ten years down the road and you might have to sit on it for a while because by that time i bet the going price of the 70 muscle car market is going to be much higher. Then again if its something you enjoy doing and you have a shop and all the tools to do the resto yourself and its a car you like and want to keep there is nothing wrong with that. :beer I think somebody on here once said its worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. :TU: Good luck on the sale of your car its not a bad deal. PS its worth a lot more than $1800.00 :grin:
Game Show? Is this "The Price Is Right"? $1801.00 is my Bid. :laugh: Mike how many People have mad the trip to Topeka, to see the car? Pictures do not do this car Justice! Most people will never know the shape this car is in, and thats too Bad. This car may never get the resto it deserves... How many were made? How many are left? How many are they making now! Everyone has an opinion, and it counts. Look at what is out there to buy, what is left! Still some good cars, lots of junk, lots of wanna bee's. Numbers matching 70 GS455 Conv.. I believe the right person, will get this car at a fair price when all is done. $1800.00 I would rather be burried alive in the car, than make an offer like that. John p.s. I did not go to buy the car. Went for the Buick race in Topeka, spent the day with Mike and Dave F. looking at the cars and relaxing with friends. Why don't I buy the car? I have a GS conv. along with 4 other GS cars.
Wait a minute!!! I seem to remember taking a little trip in a red dually to a quanset hut and saw a lot of nice vehicles sitting around. I think there was a guy in the front seat of the dually with a porno moustache, too!! :shock: uzzled: :TU:
Not quanset! LOL! It is quonset: A trademark used for a prefabricated portable hut having a semicircular roof of corrugated metal that curves down to form walls. Hmmm, don't think you can get many Buicks in a quonset! Maybe Mike has a Morton steel building???? I know he has got to be spending all the big bucks he is making from repro/repair parts on a Buick storage building the size of a Home Depot or Walmart! :Brow: :laugh:
Yes its a morton. I rent 6 spaces in a friends mothers barn. It has cement floors and 18 foot ceilings
Well, by definition, portable and hut don't seem to me to be a 60x120 bldg. LOL! Well, maybe portable since you guys live in Tornado Alley! Sheesh! Well, Dave, to me a hut would be no bigger than 12x12 or 15x15. I know you have seen Gilligan's Island and their "huts" LOL!
