Well ok so what?? I had an engine for over 4 years and1500 plus passes made 640 hp at the flywheel and with no girdle, no cement, no reinforcments of any kind and ran low 11s and high 10s in a 4000 lb car. I never had a block break ......... why would I have spent another $3000 on a block I had no issues with???? Heres another question what RPM should you concider time for a girdle ???? I was spinning 6500 between shifts and 6800 at the stripe So is that time ??????? What your saying brent is that if you build a buick motor of any higher HP range it is mandintory to install all the reinforcements?? I am not a customer of JB or JW I can go either way but why ???? I have a guy who does the same thing they do right here close. Are you throwing him on the pile here too of a substandard builder????? Whats the deal with you anyway?? How fast are you??? wheres your time slips?? Are you saying that all the guys from the past before girdles and pans were available were stupid while turning over 6000 rpm without support??? Seems to me you are being coached from the sidelines And its time you stop.
Better watch it Mike, that is pretty far from the truth. If you have an accusation to make, make it man. I would say that you got lucky with yours. I think a smart builder, one that has to stand behind his work, assuming JB does that, would insist on cement. I'm not sure where you come up with $3000 either, it doesn't cost anything close to that for either a girdle or cement. You want timeslips? grow up man. If I felt like it, I could throw a bunch of dough at a Buick and make it plenty fast(yeah, that is a $100k BMW in the pic behind the Buick). Thats not my game, I just want a fast street car. If you live and die by stupid timeslips, maybe its time you take a look around. Very few, even those on this board judge a man by his timeslips. If you do, I feel for ya.
I was making a point here ok !!?? No accusation at all just stating what it looks like from here........ First off I had the street car like you say ..... I was driving thru downtown traffic 100 degree days to the track to run low 11's right off the street then drove home. I bought a 535 that has it all yes but then by doing this engine I have lost something I miss driveability. Sure I can drive it but now I select the days. But that is totally not what I was wanting to talk about here. As for the costs lets see Girdle installed and line bored block with shipping $2000 ok its not $3K but the point is I never saw the benifit in it with that motor....... You are crucifying JB over something everyone does. You cant tell me that you never wound up the motor in your car ever without a girdle and all the tricks ?? I cant beleive JW hasnt told you that those old junk SP trans's are trash and a thing of the past??? I have a bud that has a poston 4000 SP converter but it dont work either Oh yea its only the sylinoid that dont work. Shall we blame that on JB too?? we bought it there?? I am amazed at the comments you have made about someone just over a converter you wont send back. I wish I had your money ................. If a part that large was bad I would have it in the mail already myself. DID you ever think that maybe he has a company that builds them and they had a run of bad ones. I dont know! does JB cut converters open and build them ??? I dont know!!!?? You seem to have all the answers and seem to be on a JB witch hunt.... I had a problem with JB recently myself and you know what all it took was a simple call to him to get it resolved. Try it out. One more thing THIS IS THE REASON FOR LESS AND LESS PARTS AVAIABLE TO THE BUICK COMMUNITY!!! The $$$ Only goes so far. There isnt 300,000 stupid little geeks looking for parts like the Chevys, fords or heaven forbid the ricer cars!! There is only a handfull of true blue Buick owners. (comparitivly speaking) I for one have had my GS since 1977 I have seen whats out there. So what if a guy builds a motor without reinforcements, does it run? did it live?? what did it do on the dyno or at the track????? Thats how I look at it. In Fred Catlins day he built motors for everyone and they were fast he even talked crap at TA since he was a Kenne Bell person , Now wheres KB now ??? NOT ENOUGH BUICK MONEY !!!!! What does he sell ??? MUSTANG Crap. TA has taken over now!! JW, JB, Bob Makley, Gessler, and a few dozen other builders all build in different ways. They all use different parts, they all build fast engines and slow engines. Take a break from being so uptight and think about it. Buick people dont spend as much money as other breeds do (quanity matters) So as far as Im concerned when JB or any of the others post a combo and its specs they can,so I can see whats up!! Compitition is good for all of us, It will only make everyone a little better with each combo we build.
Whoa there.. back that bus up... Mike, Don't implicate me in this mess.. I have zip to do with it.. Yes, Brent is a customer and a friend of mine. Yes, he walked into the shop one day last summer, and announced that he had a Poston SP converter and just like with everyone else that comes into my shop, I felt it was best that I caution him about what I know about those things. So I showed him the pics of one that I bought, which had a fin stuck in it from a previous failure, and lasted about a mile in a freshly done project we did about 4 years ago.. cost me a trans rebuild, and after investigating 3 of those converters, we knew that we had to build one that I would put in a customer's car. Also showed him two other ones, that I have in the shop, cut open, and well.. they are not up to the standards of what I will put my name on.. let's leave it at that.. He also happened to be around when I was doing some inspection on some other parts from another vendor, and whitnessed that mess.. He has a simple valid question.. why would you not strenghten the bottom end of a 600+ HP motor. Anything that comes out of my shop, and makes that power, has had something done to it to address that issue, from using only select castings to build that motor, to good rods, and studs, and a girldle or a short fill of grout in the water jackets. These motors vary a lot in casting thickness and core shift issues, and I have rejected even '76 blocks for 500 HP builds. So there is very little consistant about these motors.. all JB had to say was that for the application, the particular motor was well suited and prepped for it. Before everyone started laying into Brent, and this deal got ugly, I was going to ask JB some tech questions about that particular build. I was hoping to relate some numbers we got on a very similar STG 1 alum engine, and then get into camshaft tech stuff. Would have been a good learning experience for all of us,who read the board, as to how these motors react to different cam installation points, lobe centerlines, and duration specs. The fact is that the motor we did had a different approch to the cam, with a touch tighter centerline, and a reduced exhaust duration number, and made 610 TQ at 4800 and 604 HP at 5800. But oh well, I guess that will have to wait for another time. I hope your not implicating that I am coaching Brent from the sidelines, because if you are, you are big-time out of line here. I have not spoken to him since the day we dynoed his motor. I will agree that he is a no-bs type of guy, and can be a little blunt at times, but he is a sucessful businessman, and I have know quite a few guys that share that those traits, and that sucess. Man.. everyone needs to lighten up here.. it must be winter.. ou: If Jim B can keep his customers happy, that is the bottom line. That's all I try and do. If I wanted to push products and services, that is merely a key stroke away from where I am sitting, but I have been overly careful to not do that. Yes, I do post dyno stuff, because just like everybody else here, I am excited when we pull an "overachiever" or a combo that really performs off the dyno, and I like to share that experience and combo with my friends here. It's not like I don't tell everyone exactly how to duplicate it. There are plenty of guys on this board, who are capable of building anything that I do at the shop. I have always said that, and always will. Anyways.. enough of the :rant: ... Happy new year guys.. JW PS.. It's $1100 to have a block girdle put on, parts and labor.. now if you want to give me 2G.. well hey.. thanks... :laugh:
I can understand where you're coming from Jim, but when you have a customer voicing his opinion the way he did and including you in it, that's bad public relations and advertisement showing from your end. He was using your business as an example and showing disrepect to the people reading these posts. I can understand voicing our opinions, but when it gets political that's when it needs to stop. I saw that the second Brent posted his message.
For the record everyone!!! I Was meaning by this that Brent has a major sore spot and he it seems like he is being pushed into slamming this thread with all the JB hate mail he can. And then he cant even send a converter back that is bad ??? How much money is that worth?? thats a gimme a break to me send it back already get your money back !!! I never insinuated that You JW were involved OK? I never even hinted in that direction. To be perfectly honest I will probably never be a JB customer (but you never know) . But it also seems that Noone gets to post as an engine builder without being attacked from every where.............I guess Im just in favor of the underdog in all of this.........must be the buick inbreedness I have. Even my guy told me he wont ever post his results of any kind he dont want the attention it brings down. that to me is sad very sad............... It time to put this one to rest. My advice to everyone is "If you have a part that wont live up to its advertized usage then send it back. If enough people send back the substandard stuff sellers will get the idea that we want better stuff" That goes with me too If I send out a part that wont work I expect to get them back. I test fit it all to be sure they work as advertized so hopefully nothing ever falls thru the crack. I started replying here on this after reading it end to end and it upsets me that everyone including me can be driven by emotion of the moment, I have a BOAT load of stuff to say but have resloved to set back and not post anymore here about it. If anyone has been offended with anything I have said ...sorry
Hey Rob, you are reading a little too much into it. ANYBODY can, and I am sure a bunch of people here have, look on JW's website and see dyno sheets and build specs for a 600hp motor. I was NOT using JW's business, I was stating that he has an engine, built for a customer with similar, but a little better numbers. One of the specs listed with that build is the short fill in the block. I wanted to know why JB didn't do this, even though he clearly admits it would be a good idea in his own post! Now, had JB come on and explained why the motor was done that way, I may not have agreed but, I would have at least accepted it as his answer. Instead this turned into a "where's your timeslips" debacle. Somehow I turn into the antichrist for questioning a vendor building $10,000 motors. Isn't the whole purpose of this board to find out why? Whether it is a block girdle on a 600hp engine or the way a SP convertor is set up? If you really do not want to hear an explaination, fine, sorry I brought it up. When I choose a vendor, I vote with my pocketbook. I'm not here to undermine anybody, or play politico's to pump up JW. I thought I had a legit questiono No: Some of it was certainly "heat of the moment" stuff I shoudn't have typed, of course it seems to go both ways. I am happy to just drop it here.
True Rob.. That was my concern with this thread, and why I hesistated to even post on it. But just because I built the guy a car, does not mean that I am "pulling his strings". If you knew the man, you would understand that nobody pulls his strings.. He just knows some stuff first hand, and there was a post on this board that had the pricing for his engine. I made that post, and in it, alluded to the engine being machined here in the USA, vs most of the products that we buy these days, being done off-shore. Mr Burek saw that post, and decided that I was attacking him. Had he simply asked me directly if I was, I would have said no.. it was just a generalization, and an unfortunate one at that. But he went on a tirade, and did everything buy call my Mom a whore.. very unprofessional, and totally uncalled for. He thinks I have something against Mexican Americans, but what he does not know is that the guy who builds the very product that I compete with him on, IS mexican american.. kinda a funny coincidence, isn't it... Ulissys does great work, and he works for the owner of the rebuilder that does my converters, and is the only one who does my converters. We have had only 1 problem, and that was we had one go out with an undersize stator bushing in it. And let me tell you, there was hell to pay for that mistake, from the owner of my rebuilding shop, and they took immediate action to make sure that never happens again. So anyone that says I have a bias against any race, doesn't know what the heck they are talking about. Anyway.... After that, I just deleted the whole dang thing, and we took the conversation private, to spare us all from that mess. And since I made the original post in that thread, Deleting that first post removed the whole thread.. which is something each and every one of us can do. I excercised no special powers over the board, in any way. Brent witnessed that whole deal, since it directly involved him, and I guess it left a bad taste in his mouth for JB.. It's New Years Eve, and has become my custom, this is the day that I clean out my email boxes.. some folks seem to want to beleive that I post stuff on this board to sell things, and that is the only reason for doing it. Funny thing.. I just deleted 5425 outgoing messages from my sent items box of my outlook.. and 2005 private messages out of my PM folders.. and the vast majority of that communication, consultation and advice went to anyone that I ever have made a dime off of. I hope that those folks are asking several guys for their opinion, and getting educated by the various points of view offered, and makeing a good decision for their project. So you can understand when I see those insinuations made, I just wish those folks sat here in this chair, and put in the time, for nothing more than a thank you. I have had guys offer me money for consultation, and I have never taken it. I just had one guy Paypal some $$ to me for helping him thru a problem on the phone, and thru Pm's and email, and I thought that was a great thing, it has never happened before.... but I would never require it.. Hey.. it's New Years Eve.. shouldn't I be at a party somewhere??? ou: Nope, doing the same thing I do every day.. expect unfortuantly spending the time defending myself tonight, instead trying to help someone out, or answer questions to the best of my knowledge and experience. I certainly don't know every answer, but just have the benefit of doing this every day, for a lot of really great folks, and I am lucky to be able to do this for a living. Anyway.. Happy New Years folks.. and be safe! JW
Brent, you have to realise that once you use a company for comparision (Tri-Shield's) you're putting their name and reputation on the line. When Jim Burek put those numbers up he did it as a favor for the people on this board, not to advertise and pressure people into buying from him. This was a customer's engine that he decided people might be interested in knowing about and after saying this in his post the tension and bickering still persisted. There are alot of reasons why he or his customer might have not used a girdle, etc. in this build, I'm sure there are alot of factors that determined that. With his experience in this field I believe he knows what he's doing, especially for being in business for all these years and carrying a good reputation doing so. There are many different factors when building an engine and I don't know all of them just like alot of people, because I'm not an expert. When someone posts their engine combinations and dynos and people start asking why they did this and why they did that, we all learn from the answers. When you posted your question alot of people and I took it as a personal attack towards Jim Burek, because it was very forward, outspoken, and aggressively followed with the way Jim Weise builds his engines. Now tell me, why would Jim want to answer the question of why he didn't use a girdle, etc. when there are people being so offensive on the way he builds his engines? Apperently, with how your question was constructed to the point of questioning his abilities as a competent engine builder, he figured the engine is not good enough for you in the first place, so why bother following up? With knowing Jim Burek personally, he's a person that's willing to give his time up to help anyone out. To lose someone like him with the knowledge he has would be a big loss to the Buick community. I felt you disrespected Jim and his profession when you posted your replies and I feel there's no room for that kind of behavior. If you just posted "Why don't you use a girdle or fill in the block?" none of this would have happened, but you decided to take it farther than that.
Jim, I respect you and everyone on this board and I'm thankful we have people like you and all the other professionals that take their time to spend with us. This revolves around one person who made a comment that affected alot of people and I feel something should be done because it disrespected an individual that didn't deserve it. I hope we can finally get over this with the knowing and understanding that there's no need to disrespect one another on this board. I hope everyone has a safe and Happy New Year.
Thanks Rob.. And I agree.. a person's work will dictate his reputation.. word does get around, both good and bad. Sometimes for good reason, and sometimes not.. But in the end, if the word on the street is good, the business will prosper. Speaking of prosper.. sometimes too much of that is not a good thing... it makes folks work on Holidays.. And I gotta go to bed now.. tomorrow is just another day at the shop. Have a good day off, you guys that are lucky enough to get one.. JW
Good thinking Mike....................... *EDIT* ................................................................ Later...............................
Maybe J.B.'s customer didn't want to spring for reinforcement! If - Maybe - Should have - Would have - Could have - Apples - Peaches - Pumpkin pie. It's a New Year Gang! Let's Everybody take a Chill Pill and get a fresh start. Without flames of course. Ken Cattrona(sp) had the right idea. Let's all have some PIE!!! Now go to bed!!!! See ya all tomorrow.
Could possibly have been a "mule motor" of sorts..... No Girdle/Filler needed just to test for power. Just a different angle nobody mentioned in all this foolishness. Ther are many possibilities that make it un-wise to ASSUME To the Engine Builderslease do not hesitate to share your experience/findings with us in the future. Dyno #'s are cool.....And to the rest of you:Timeslips are always better than the sticker price on your BMW:boring:
Well i have something to say about all this.Iam soon to be the proud owner of the engine in question here.I spoke to jim on the phone one day and ended up talking about 2 hours. Thats when i deceided to have Jim build my engine. I had quite a few parts saved over the yearsect.. Was just going for 540 hp with cast iron but he ran across some stage 2 heads so we did that instead. the short block was completed so no guildile ect.. Iam hoping this thing last and plan on shifing about 6000 rpm.I plan on using pump gas.Just like the dyno testing and by the way the dyno runs were through exhaust so just imagine the big balls this thing has!!! at 10-1 those are pretty good numbers and remember it idles at 850 and will pull enough vacuum to run power brakes. But we'll see.I wish i would've known i was going stage 2 i would've gone with a girdile maybe different rods but where does it end. I started out doing this on a budget but that got blown out of the water.All and All i think Jim is a nice Guy and i expect it will all work out. I will let you all know and if anybody would like to know my combo feel free to e-mail me.Iam looking for a posi 12 bolt maybe 323-331 gears? anybody? David
And I would think that Davids reply here would end the vendor war and the bashing that has happened. I feel its unfortunate that the poor guy had to come in and defend/explain why the motor ended up the way it did. Sounds to me like he is happy with what he got and is looking forward to completing his project. Just like all of us are, or have been at some time in our lifes with our cars. Thanks to David for the reply with the reasoning behind the buildup. In my opinion I feel that it wasn't needed. Do it however you want and screw everyone else. I am sure you got a fine price for the motor you got as I have talked to JB about similar deals in the past. The aluminum heads will give you some more room to grow in the future too. I am now looking that way myself. To Jim, I saw in one of your other posts......"better not post any numbers so as not to start a ruckus".....LMAO and I think your doing the right thing there buddy. Why post numbers now when it is painfully obvious that the "fan club" is sitting on the ready to attack anyone that does............... And we wonder why the real BIG builders like Charlie E., Mike P., or any of the guys at Finishline(those 3 listed as examples) don't show numbers here . Well folks I would have to say that this is why. It IS Jims board, we all know that, understand that, and aggree to his terms when we signed on. But its just too bad when one of the builders other than J.W. think about posting something, that could help someone out by giving them ideas, and they get reamed because its all wrong and they shoulda done it this way with these parts. I'm out....................
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but can we stay on a subject matter that is relevant?? I.E. on-topic?? Pertain to Buick street/strip technical stuff?? No offense intended.
