I did read the thread. There was no need to use a flow bench? And the exhaust was not touched? And 9.2:1 SCR? Sorry Cheryl, I don't believe everything I read. Being prone to exaggeration is human. Start reading at post #33. Quite a lot of skepticism there. I still maintain you need a good set of ported iron heads to make 500 HP, and that it is a lot easier with aluminum heads. The Edelbrocks can get you there cheaper than what it would cost to do a set of iron heads from scratch. That pretty much sums up the answer the OP was looking for.
Larry, Larry, Larry, There is some skepticism in that thread, but also some independent confirmation. In addition, the dyno I posted above on 93 octane pump at Pee Gee with almost 560 HP and 580 TQ from the early 90s was with Street/Strip S1 heads ported by Tomlenson. These heads topped out at 245 CFM at .600 lift (well below Jim's magic 260s). These were flowed by Gesseler when he upgraded them to a Competition port a year later. I have the before and after sheets here if needed. The point being this kind of power (well above 500 and closer to 600) was available on 93 pump gas with a average port job using a streetable flat tappet hydraulic cam. Further proof is that these same Tomlenson heads were on an earlier 462 with 11:1 pistons that were closer to 10:1 in the engine. This engine used a Hemi Killer cam (true Street/Strip cam) on 93 octane pump gas. This engine ran 11.7s in full street trim on dot tires in our 4000 lb Skylark in the mid 80s. Any of your HP to weight calculators will put that engine right at or above 500 HP. Considering this is before we learned about better shocks, no-hop bars, air bags and slicks, I am sure this engine was above 500 hp with an average port, street/strip cam and 93 octane gas. So, the OP needs to know this is all that is needed for 500 HP. Iron or aluminum heads ported to the Nth degree and an expensive roller cam set up are unnecessary in his case. A decent set of used ported iron S1 heads and a good Street/Strip cam would make his 500 HP a reality. Cheryl
Cheryl, everything is combination. I'm not saying it can't be done. My point is the OP asked a question that has been answered. That answer is he will absolutely need a better set of iron heads to get to 500 HP. Untouched iron heads are not going to get you there. How much that is gonna cost him depends on whether he can port them himself, or whether he needs to send them out, and to who. As far as using 93 pump gas with iron heads and 10:1 SCR, if everything is right and with the right cam, sure, but I would still mix in some race gas at the track. That's just me, I won't take a chance, but on the street where you aren't going WOT for extended periods, it would probably be fine if EVERYTHING was right on. Again, aluminum heads make everything easier and cheaper, and they are more octane tolerant.
Looks to me like the OPs question has been asked and answered several times over. 500 HP = ported iron or aluminum heads, good compression, and the right cam choice. Sound about right? :laugh:
800 Q-jet, B4B, ported stg1 1786 Iron heads, Stock Distributor with a crane kit, 10.0:1, 233/248 @ .050 .493/.491 112, Stock debeamed rods with ARP bolts, CP pistons, stock main bolts. 494 HP @ 5300 and 547ftlbs @ 4200
Excellent idea to post the combos that worked! It's so much easier these days for machinists and builders to hit their hp goals without flow benches and years of developing combinations. Much more of the basic engineering info is being shared along with the public understanding it better. It makes it easier to know where you will end up rather than guessing. Even more conjecture is out there regarding dyno's, how they work, how they correct, etc.
:grin: My 17 year old Son J is building this same engine plat forum for his first engine build. Very proud of him for taking this on and carrying on the 3rd generation of BBB's in our family.
I once talked to Bob Glidden about this. He said that he could give his Championship winning number 1 qualifier Ford to 99% of the die hard drag racers in the world and they wouldn't even be able to qualify it at the very next race. And he of course is correct. It is the total combination from parts to machine work to build to car/converter/tranny/gear/suspension to tuner to driver. The engine and dyno are only a small but important part.
S-divider intake, Stage 2 cam, and iron heads with stage 1 valves and valve bowl work = about 400 - 435 hp and 525 - 535 ft lbs of torque if done rt. call Rob Chilinski of Stage 1 performance and other well established Buick Performance shops like Finishline motorsports, they can seat and talk about possble gettin close to 500 hp or at it. Robert Makley is very knowledgeable on Buick's.
Its funny everyone thinks cfm is need for a certain hp? Wow, maybe they should teach everyone that the number one NHRA prostock car of last yr, Erica Enders had almost one hundred less cfm to the nearest competitors. Learn this. Air is nothing without gas. Add gas to the airflow, you will see what I'm talking about. Port shape, port height, bowl width, bowl shape, valve shape, valve seat shapes, and a thousand more varibles are needed to know to make a cast iron head to work rt. Send your heads to a very high end shop that knows Buick's (a few out there) AM&P use to do it easily but he no longer is open. Call Robert Makley his head porter is a badaxx, None other then John Marcella of Marcella Manifolds. John has more knowledge on induction then anyone in here. He is not cheap but I promise he can make the heads do 500 hp with your combo. Its not cheap to do it but it is obtainable. Call Uncle Al of HRD racing heads he'll talk with ya on this and tell them what they say in here, he will laugh. He has done the impossible.
By the way 1500 plus dollars is not cheap. Thats not even thw cost of TA's heads. Having my heads done by any of the names mentioned here will not cost a grand at all and it will indeed make 500horsepower on your combo. These heads will be done to your driving habits and car. Not just to your engine. Thats where people think they know what they are doing. Flow bench this flow that. Nope not that easy.
What else has changed? IMO, for a street driven 455, the S1 and S2 aluminum heads have been the most important products made for our cars. They are a easy way to get to a true 500hp. That's why I posted the link, a lot of info in that thread is still relevant today. Its been said a million times here on this part of the forum: put as much effort and money as you can into heads. A large carburetor, good intake manifold, a good flowing set of S1 aluminum heads, 1.6 roller rockers, TA413 or 290-08H cam, headers and good exhaust system is still a potent setup, just like it was in back in 2003. How much power would your car lose if the S1/S2 aluminum heads didn't exist and you were forced to run iron heads but the HR cam existed? Probably more than if the HR cam didn't exist but the aluminum heads did. Also not everyone has a $1000 or more to throw at the HR cam and the necessary parts to make it work.
I agree Bob, Not sure when the TA heads came out, but back then, I would think most were running Iron heads, and then Edelbrock made aluminum heads even more affordable making it much easier to get to 500 HP. We also may have more cam options today as I mentioned and as you mentioned, head flow is all important. With good aluminum ported heads, you can use a much smaller cam and still get to the target yet have better drive ability.
