Its not going to be too long now.....before gas prices SERIOUSLY Drop - Im talking Sub $1.00 / Gallon :jd: :jd: Its not too far away when Alternative fuel's are powering our cars....and BOY !! will we have the last Laugh Imagine in 10 ?? 15 ?? years when we're all sipping Hydrogen in our Fuel Cells.....or charging our Lithium Polimer batteries off our own Solar grids and their is little demand for OPEC Oil ?? I hope they all CHOKE on their Crude..... Technology is steadily gaining on them.....actually the basics are already in place, Its just a logistics and cost issue now - If the price of Gas continues to spiral upward, then the cost issue will evaporate and create an equlibrium where it becomes economical to push these newer fuel sources into production uses......Now !! ....and then the day will come.....where all GearHeads and MuscleCar lover's dreams come true - an overaboundant surplus of our mechanical monsters favorite nurishment.....HIGH Octane Petrol !! Those OPEC countries better get real FAT while they can.....cause Im gonna Laugh myself silly when their ride is over I'll bet that within 15 years gas is under $1.00 / barrel
Hi Alan, Yeah, that would be great for us (and I don't mean to be a pessimist hereo No: ) but a VERY BIG what if...... all those Capital Hill tree huggin' eco nuts decide that with all the alternative fuel vehicles and technology, that fossil fuel then needs to be outlawed because it's no longer a necessity?? Think about it...Al Bore said that the single biggest enviromental disaster has been the internal combustion engine.:Smarty: I truely believe that these "alternative fuel" variants will do nothing (or very, very little) good for our hobby at all. They, in the long run, will more than likely make us "uncivilized" lawbreakers! Just my shared opinion on the subject..:TU:
You're right,Alan. It's just a matter of time-I can't wait for the day that gas drops like a rock. It'll serve those idiots right. Please Dear Lord,let it happen.
I can't imagine there'd be enough push to outlaw Gasoline's use. Most of these environmental billas are little more than political grandstanding, there's no real intelligence behind them. For example 1 diesel truck pollutes more than 10000 cars, and 1 new car at $50000 with 50MPG still costs more environmental damage than running a car with 12 MPG for 35 years! The engineering problems of changing fuels are far easier to overcome than building electric cars, it's the complete lack of research in this area that's to blame. We have put a ridiculous amount of time into prefecting an imprefect technology, and overcoming the dominant design has been historically difficult. Gas prices will be in the driver seat soon enough though. Once the price of operating a fleet of vehicles on gas gets higher than the R&D issues, you'll have a flood of converts... My 0.02 at any rate...
It's a great idea, but it'll probably never happen. The oil industry is so entrenched in so many facets of our society and effect so many aspects of our lives, I doubt you will see $1.00 a gallon...ever again. Even if there was a great surge in hydrogen fuel cells and hybrid cars, the US government would just add more taxes onto the fuel to pad their pockets and keep the cost up. Then the manufactureres would say their refining costs have risen because of the higher demands of the more fuel efficient cars. Oh, and OPEC will still be around for a couple of hundred more years before they start to drain their money wells. They'll just cut production to 10 barrels a day if they have to. It's a great thought, but my opinion is it'll never happen. BTW: My parents bought a Toyota Prius. They average 50 mpg and love it, especially now.
...and if you think Gasoline costs a lot, check out this link to compare it against some other commodities... Gallon cost ...maybe I can get paid with a gallon of scorpion venom...:grin:
In my chem class today the professor showed us a study that fuel cells cause mroe polution in the long run formore details look at american scientific
I dont know....Solar cell technology has taken another leap foward as for the amount of energy produced per cell. The ONLY thing that traditionally has stopped wide spread usage of Solar Power is 1) The Extremely HIGH initial up front costs and the low 'ish power values of the cells.....necessitating More cells. Whats needed is foward thinking.....and investment. If oil prices rise so high as to make solar more attractive, more poeple start using it...more companies develop technology for it and price drops as demand increases Plus....with gas prices rising out of control, We're talking ALOT....ALOT !!! more socio-economic impact here ....Its ALOT more than what it costs to fill our personal tanks.... the price of EVERYTHING you purchase will increase - to cover the costs of shipping it to where you bought it from. Heating oil and the costs to heat our homes in the winter...... If prices were to double (and I think that that will happen in 2 years or so out of nothing short of greed) you will start to see ALOT of private and public Energy Companies start to look at alternatives to burning Petrol. There Geo-Thermal technologies, Oceanographic technologies....Lots and LOTS of ways to make power.....its just historically been CHEAPER to buy and burn Oil and Gas !! Thats the plane simple reason.....and I pedict they will price themselves Right out of the game .....and I will dance in the streets wearing my "F*CK OPEC" T-Shirt, when gas prices start to drop....significantly. Sure it'll take 10 years at least.....I better start dance lessons now it cost me over $70.00 to fill Shamoo and Big Red last nite at "6 Cents off Premium Tuesday"......ou: ou:
Fuel cells are about 40% more efficient but still need lots of petrolium to create the hydrogen and oxygen. Batteries will still need fossel fuel to charge them. Gas will be around for quite a while i wouldn't hold your breath.
It'll be a while before we see lots of alternative fuel vehicles. Many companies have designed/built some nice ones, but failed miserably. The petroleum companies will do all they can to prevent mass production of alternative fuel vehicles.
yes the cars are in place already,but it is the cost issue. an average person isn't going to go out and pay $120000 for a vehical to get to the store or to work at this time. also the maintance of these cars are in question yet. within the last 10 years alone these hybreeds have come a long way. i myself veiw the issue of solar power cars before the hybreeds. just look at the cost of the panels and the variuse sizes that they may be enginered to ocamadate the spectrome of uses. soon is going to come alond quickly:TU: :Comp:
Even if demand for oil dropped to create a glut then OPEC would simply cut production. And also if demand drops so much many oil companies and importers may go out of business and the cost of getting oil here would be prohibitavely expensive. Perhaps if that happens we should all convert to alcohol?
i'm going to convert to a little alcohal over the weekend. go in the hospital for a bit friday and hmight have to stay but will convert when i get out:spank: :beer :grin:
The gas prices are all relative. Gas in my neighborhood just went to $2.05. The highest I have ever seen it in Ohio in my lifetime. But have you stopped to think about the price of gas in relation to other things? Think about where gas comes from, what it takes to convert it from oil, tank it to the states, truck it across the country and the number of perople involved to finally get it into your tank. So I'm paying $2.05 for gas and in the mean time I walk into the store and pay $2.79 for a gallon of milk, that when I look at the container I find it comes from a dairy less than 100 miles from me. ou: ou: ou: ou:
The only way that alternative forms of energy will come into widespread use is if Big Oil is making the money on it. Toyota and Mitsubishi have had direct injection gas engines in use now for about 8 years now. They get about 30% better fuel economy, and have 20% more power than standard engines. However they are not sold in the states because our gas has too much sulphur in it. Wonder why?
I guess it's time for me to chime in on this one. Several of you guys may remember I brought this topic up a couple of years ago, but it didn't get much attention then... Probably because back then gas wasn't busting $2 a gallon, also because two years ago, some of us still had a few dollars left in the stock market, and were "waiting for the turn-around". Well Boys and Girls, times have changed! So it's now time to take a second, and more serious look at Hydrogen. Despite what all the tree hugging environmentalists say, hydrogen could very well be the answer to ALL of our energy problems. The practical applications of hydrogen are an established, un-disputed fact. #1, Any internal [or external , i.e. Jet's] combustion engine can be [easily] converted to run on hydrogen. #2, A properly protected tank of compressed hydrogen is actually safer in an automobile than a 20 gallon tank of gasoline made of thin sheet metal strapped under the rear bumper! #3, Hydrogen as a fuel contains more power than conventional gasoline, therefore a car could get better MPG with the same power, or more power with the same MPG! #4, hydrogen contains no complex strains of carbon, therefore all of the carbon based polutants associated with automobiles are non-existant. [un burned hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, etc] #5, when hydrogen is burned [oxodized] the only by-product is H2O,,, plain simple water vapor. In other words, hydrogen powered engines produce ZERO tailpipe emissions. #7, because hydrogen contains no complex carbons [see #4] it does not carbon contaminate the oil inside the engine. Therefore, a properly engineered hydrogen powered vehicle would NEVER require an oil change!!!!! #8, Because hydrogen is an absolutely natural ellement that exists abundantly in nature, there is little to no risk of an environmental disaster in the event of a spill. Also because the natural state of hydrogen is a gas, if it were spilled in say for example an automobile accident, it would dissapate/evaporate harmlessly in a matter of seconds [quite the opposite of gasoline] These are just a few of the myths associated with [the suposed downside] of hydrogen [powered vehicles].... To quote the Discovery Channel show.......MYTH BUSTED!!! And that's all I have to say about that! Now, lets knock down some of the myths associated with converting our existing society/ infrastructure over to a hydrogen society. Myth #1, Hydrogen powered FUEL CELL technology is still in it's infancy. There is a lot of development work that still needs to be done to make them efficent to a level where they would be accepted by the general public. At this time no one is willing to pay $100k for a highly expiremental fuel cell powered vehicle MYTH BUSTED! FUEL CELL MY A$$!!!! Who's talking fuel cell here??? I'm talking about converting EXISTING gasoline, diesel, and R85 engines to opperate on clean BURNING hydrogen. Right now, right here, TODAY anyone, even you and me can convert our cars, even our classic big block powered muscle cars to run on hydrogen for about $2500, total cost! The hardware exists an is available right now at a retail location near you. Dont believe me? Go down to your local natural gas or propane dealer and ask them about converting your car to run on one of those fuels... They will sell you the "kit" for about $2000. Then purchase the special "hydrogen regulator" for an extra $500..... There you have it, your car now runs on hydrogen for $2500. Myth #2 The infrastructure to transport, deliver, and pump hydrogen into the fuel tank of our cars does not exist. MYTH BUSTED it does exist! it's just not utilized to it's potential. I'v seen tanker trucks of compressed hydrogen rolling down the highway, so I know they exist. Besides, how in the hell do you think they transport/deliver/pump propane or CNG [compressed natural gas] right now??? It doesn't just magically appear down at the propane dealer... It's transported and delivered JUST LIKE EXISTING GASOLINE!!!!! Converting, or expanding the existing propane/CNG system could be done without any major problems. Myth #3, Converting over to a hydrogen society would cost BILLION$$$$$ of dollars. MYTH BUSTED Exactly how much does it cost to maintain the existing gasoline infrastructure we currently use???? Answer: BILLION$$$$ So how much MORE would it cost to shift the gasoline infrastructure into "low gear" while at the same time shifting a hydrogen infrastructure into "high gear"???? Answer: About exactly the same ammount of money we are currently spending... And let me stress the word "WE" here... We are paying the billions of $$$ it takes to keep the gasoline monster running, WE!!! The oil companies are not loosing money on anything!!! They simply pass the cost along to us, er I mean we! Myth #4, Because hydrogen is a specialty fuel, it would cost the consumer about $2.50 a gallon. People would not be willing to pay that high a cost for hydrogen [powered vehicles]. MYTH BUSTED!!! So, my choices are $2.20 a gallon for IMPORTED oil to make some rag-headed camel jockey who hates america a billionaire, while at the same time polluting the hell out of mother earth??? OR... $2.50 a gallon for clean burning hydrogen made right here in the good old USA, supporting american jobs, while at the same time helping the environment, and keeping american money right here in america??? Also, lets not forget that as hydrogen gains in popularity, it moves FROM a specialty fuel to a MAINSTREAM fuel, and the price drops. Infact, if large scale hydrogen production were implimented tomorrow, the cost of a gallon of hydrogen could be as low .39 cents a gallon in just a few years!!!!!!!!! Myth #5 Hydrogen is NOT A TRUE FUEL, but is infact a medium. It must be PRODUCED, and it takes power to produce it. That power would have to come from existing power plants that burn fossil fuels. The power plants would have to burn MORE fossil fuels to produce the "clean burning" hydrogen, and in turn the power plants would produce the polution that automobiles currently produce in order to make hydrogen. MYTH BUSTED Since were talking about converting over to a whole new way of doing things, how about a whole new way of producing hydrogen? Wind and solar! There are millions of square miles of wind blasted sun drenched deserts and highlands right here in the USA that are un-inhabited, and are for the most part considered to hostile for human habitation due to the high temps and high winds..... So why not utilize these places for wind and solar power plants to produce hydrogen for our domestic market?????? This is not a pipe dream. The technology exists right now, it is simply under utilized, or shunned entirely by big oil company interests. In closing, I'll offer my vision for a "hydrogen utopia" First of all, the Government puts a .10 cent per gallon tax on ALL fossil based fuels. By doing the math, that works out to just about $1.00 a day for every man, woman, and child in america. Call it an "environmental rebuilding tax" and ear-mark it EXCLUSIVELY for converting us over to a hydrogen society. That works out to about $270 million a day [!], or about $98 billion a year [!!!] Next, take that $98 billion and use it DIRECTLY to tackle the 6% un-employment rate, putting people to work BUILDING SOLAR AND WIND POWER PLANTS. Then pass legislation mandating auto manufacturers build cars that run on both conventional fossil fuels as well as hydrogen for 5 years, then build certain models of cars powered exclusively by hydrogen after that [sort of like the old CAFE laws]. Also legislation mandating every gas station that has more than 4 gas pumps must install a hydrogen pump within 1 year. That's pretty much it... After 6 or 7 years when people see real benefits of hydrogen powered cars, everything else will fall into place. Sort of like knocking over the first domino. After about 10 years, we will no longer need to import ANY oil into our county. All of the oil we will still use will once again come from Texas. The $250 billion a year we currently send to the middle east to purchase oil will STAY RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA, supporting american jobs, and putting more money in all of our pockets! As I said before, this is not a pipe dream. It is reality. All we need is visionary leadership to make it happen.
would you mind if we pass your vision onto our senators and reps. if this is true you realy have something here and it does need to come out.
