350 Pistons

...as long as you aren't getting parts that have been sitting around for a long time, and they are out there.

It isn't a stretch that an engine assembler or machinist would tend to sway towards a part that likely won't attach your name to disaster vs. one that could be risky, regardless of the cost. A clever machinist or savvy bargain hunter can find ways to negate the cost.

(not that I'm in the middle of this...)

 

There you go again Gary, SOooooooooooo thin skinned that a paper cut would make you bleed to death. uzzled: Dude, you misunderstood so many points, for example the math point, sure it was simple math but the hard part is taking the time to look up the parts to show the different costs which would be fair if you didn't believe the cost difference for me to show how the math works out. In NO way was that supposed to be an insult!


And again, I can care less about any of the insults and personal attacks you dropped on me(I am very thick skinned), its when you argue with other posters is what I was referring to. It was right there in what I wrote, "Trying to get you to understand this so your contributions here will continue" in my previous post. All the G-rated was for any future arguments you may get in with someone else that's not me.(and if we play the percentages here that will more than likely probably happen?) Trying to give you a bit of advise so you don't get kicked off here bud, I for one wouldn't like to see that and you kind of didn't get that point I was trying to make it looks like.


As for me insulting you in previous posts in this thread, come on, light hearted ribbing at best I would say. There you go again dropping a P-bomb, dude lets try to keep things G-rated here, this is a family site no need for the potty mouth. Just because little chillins talk like "sailors" doesn't make it right to do it here, there are plenty of adults that don't like it. As for the word crappy, the urban dictionary defines it the way I used it;

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Crappy

A word I have heard used on network TV, does that make it R-rated, I didn't think so. But if people find THAT word offensive please let me know and I will stop using it to describe sub-standard parts.

And thanks for calling Speed-pro, that goes to show that Steve probably did have the India pistons unless he got new old stock that was on the shelf for a few years? Mine are pre-year 2000 pistons so I know for 100% certainty that mine were made in USA, I was thinking they moved there longer ago than 3 to 4 years ago like JW, I think it was posted. Good stuff Gary.

"The only thing I was really 'wrong' about was the quality of the 340p pistons" Actually this statement isn't quite true is actually wrong, and mostly I was referring to claiming that I was trying to sell pistons as one of the things you were VERY wrong about. By the way it would seem that wrong is one of your button words, wasn't sure at first until I pressed it again.(you probably need to work on that Gary, no one is going to be right all of the time unless your real name is Bullwinkle the G-rated comedy reference I posted before) Also what you were wrong about was that the pistons I linked can be used close to the same price plus or minus saving on some un-needed machine work(because of the customizability that the pistons in the link have) factoring in head gaskets and rings. In that last post I even posted more savings by skipping boring the block which is a win win for a stock rebuild that isn't getting sonic testing done because much more material would be left in the cylinder walls.(at least .0125" per side which can be the difference between marginal and don't use if the block has a lot of core shift) I wouldn't recommend just ball honing though because that wouldn't ensure that the bores would be round and all the same size like a machine shop honing machine would be capable of doing.

It looks like you're a very angry guy Gary with an inferiority complex, try to work on that.(not an insult, just an observation of what it looks like the way you post, I could be wrong but that's what it looks like? o No Its ok to be wrong Gary, when you are don't let it upset you so much even if you are right or think you are right.(again this is advise for future postings, not necessarily for what was posted in this thread)


"Why provoke me unless you WANTED a reaction? What's your real goal here?"
The Real goal here is to try and get you to not get kicked off so you can continue to contribute here in the future.(tuff luv) Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're calling you stupid,(for now and for future reference) people that read a thread can decide who's advice they like better, other than that who the flock cares, take your own advise in that circumstance and "move on"(again for future reference so you don't get kicked off). Trying to be your friend here Gary so you don't get another warning or worse, I guess I had to spell it out for you and that is what most of the previous post was about.


Derek

 

Exactly. :gp:


Derek

 

Gary yes it is correct that some of Federal-Mogul Motorparts pistons are built in India and yes there was some issues at first, but that was 13 years ago and they were fixed 13 years ago, we have not had any reported problems with the 340P30 pistons. The 340P30 is the only piston size we still offer in the 340P family.
From Federal-Mogul Motorparts Garage Gurus Product Support Team
Please Call The Federal-Mogul Motorparts Garage Gurus Techline @ 800-325-8886


Gary,
I too made contact with Federal Mogul and received the same response.

 

Fingers crossed, someone trying to sell pistons, of coarse they're going to say that just so you know, they'll probably be fine though hopefully. Looks like it could be a pre-written statement if that's the same thing you got?

Do yourself a favor and do or have done the measuring to make sure your compression ratio will be where you want it to be so it runs better than before the rebuild. GL



Derek

 

I will Derek and thank you.

 

Hey, if you can see if you can get a date when the pistons you bought were made so you don't get a set of the earlier ones because I would imagine sbb pistons wouldn't have as big of a turnaround as a sbc piston.(just to be on the safe side of what Federal Mogul claims)



Derek

 

Already thought of that as well and will once they arrive.

 

Also I noticed that TA sells the Moly rings for only $4 more than the regular cast rings, didn't price them out elsewhere though if you wanted to upgrade the rings.



Derek

 

I won't waste any more of my time trying to refute the ridiculousness of your assertions here Derek, because all it's doing is going in circles. The proof is in the previous posts and does not need reiteration.

Your shade-tree psychoanalysis on giving advice shouldn't be introduced with insults and slander if you wish it to carry any merit or credibility.

You poked and prodded me into a reaction, and then gasp and say look everyone, he's attacking me! pfft. It's not just you either. Herein likes the real catch-22: if I'm abused on the forums and do not react, then I'm 'thick skinned' and everything is apparently kosher; but if I respond in like, then I'm an argumentive antagonist who needs to be threatened. Seems more like there are certain individuals who are gunning for me. Certainly that cannot be disputed.

It was even mentioned previously by another poster on how I was receiving a 'Lord of the Rings' style bashing, and this was before I even responded. You have clearly been given permission to do this, while my reaction is being carefully monitored. There is no way you could have gotten away with it without your own forum ban threat otherwise.

Seems like this thread is miraculously getting back on track, and I'd like to keep it that way.

So having said all this, y'all have fun.


Gary

 

Something else that needs to be considered that I have yet to see being suggested here is to make sure each piston sits as equally below deck as possible to assure even compression across all 8 cylinders. This is something that truing up a block would help with, and if it is omitted, can result in uneven compression ratios across the cylinders (no matter which piston was used).

Nothing is ever going to be 100% spot on perfect, but the closer you can get it to that perfection, the better the engine will run. There can often be as much as half a point of compression ratio difference between the low and high cylinders on untouched 40+ year old blocks.

Even brand new, the engines had wide variances between compression ratios.

Unless of course you want to customize each piston for each cylinder without any machine work, but this would result in pistons weighing more than the others, and a balancing nightmare would surely ensue--which is another hidden cost of using lighter, customized pistons that was not mentioned previously (having to rebalance the engine).

Best way to avoid this is to just pay to have the block at least trued up, instead of believing that a set of custom pistons will be your magic bullet that negates any need for machine work.

Even Steve, who used the custom pistons after his Hypers were discovered to be broken, had already done all the machine work needed for his block (zero deck with the hypers he used), and said that the extra machine work above the 'baseline price' for truing the block wasn't as much as the setup/intial grind cost for truing. So using him as an outside source for information clears up any potential bias that may be derived from the suggestion of one piston type/brand over the other.

You could gain more power by making sure your compression ratios were as close to each other as possible than a higher average between uneven cylinders.

What this means is if they're closer together in ratios, there's less variance between the averages and even if they were lower compression than you'd like, would be better for your engine than uneven higher compression ratios.

Disclaimer:

Disagreeing with me was never frowned upon (as some here seem to believe to try and fit a counter argument or any 'advice' given) --and is even encouraged if it turns out I am in fact wrong, as long as words are not taken out of context, twisted around, or otherwise manipulated in an attempt to discredit or slander, which is the real reason for my contempt and retorts. I know it may be difficult to believe that a non-machinist (me) could have any concept on simple mathematics and engine tolerance/clearances, but it's true. I'm sorry if my understanding of simple things that fall within someone else's area of expertise is viewed as 'stepping on toes', as my sole intention is to help the OP using honest information free of anything to sell or services to be rendered.

Hopefully my disclaimer won't 'offend' anyone and can be viewed as a statement necessary to clear up any purposeful obfuscation from opposing parties.


Gary

 

Sorry Gary, I couldn't let this misinformation in the bold go unchecked. The blocks that I have ACTUALLY measured the deck heights from the front to back have been within .002" to .004" difference at the most. If we were talking about Mopar blocks then Gary would be absolutely right, but alas we are not. Is this slander pointing out how wrong you are from pulling something from thin air because you NEVER ever measured a deck height in your life? Seriously dude, why would you set me up this way? You are SO wrong with what you have written, why would you even write that? Go back and redo your math with the worst number I have measured of .004" difference and tell everyone what the compression ratio difference is. I think you meant to say there could be as much as .07:1(which would be negligible) difference between the front and rear cylinders, NOT .5:1!! ouis this slander and insults? or is it just correcting the misinformation spewed here?)

The General back in the day did a pretty decent job of decking the sbb 350 blocks(as far as being parallel to the mains, not hitting the actual number though), a WHOLE lot better than the brand X blocks of the same time period, like a Mopar block that could be as much as .030" from front to rear of the deck.

So I talked to Dave earlier today and asked him about some block machining pricing and he said that it costs $150 to mill deck with and extra $50 if it needs more than .030". So using the "stock" replacement pistons to get to the advertised compression ratio of those pistons would be $200 for a sbb 350 block because the shortest deck height I have ever measured was a '68 block that only had .030" extra on it. Take the .030" off then the extra .020" needs removed because of how the "stock" replacement pistons are destroked .020" vs the factory ones, that even includes the "stock" replacement pistons that are nominal!! If someone is springing for the extra machining they might as well go an extra .020" so they can use the cheaper composite gaskets and save $50, might as well while your in neck deep.

I asked Dave about boring and honing costs as well and he broke it down to $100 to bore, $100 to hone with a $50 charge for installing a deck plate for honing. So now there is $300 of savings that can be saved with the pistons in the link from skipping deck machining and boring the block, that brings that $649 price tag down to $349 that includes rings which IS less expensive than the 340P pistons. Now there is even $50 less when the composite gaskets are used, that is the initial price of the 340P pistons of $299 that doesn't include rings!!!!! :eek2: :moonu: You shouldn't write about something you know NOTHING about Gary and in the above post that proves you don't!

Oh, if you read Steve's thread he said he hated taking that much off the deck of his block to make those pistons work they way they were supposed to! He did it only to get that poopy piston where he wanted it in the hole to get the compression ratio he wanted, not to blueprint the deck. He had no choice at the time because I believe that was pre-AutoTec pistons, which Steve has actually said he would never use one of the lesser choices ever again.


Well, I guess the insults and personal attacks are going to fly now. o No: My information is from actually measuring deck heights of various sbb 350 blocks not from thin air. Pricing was confirmed by an actual machine shop as well, which I was VERY close in my first postings about pricing to begin with.


Derek

 

Groucho70,

If you order that 340P30 piston, have it measured up and evaluated, and get back to us. The info I had on those products was current, not 13 years old. And based on personal experience, not what some PR person, employed by the vendor, says.

Unfortunately, when big vendors have issues, they find it in the fast moving SBC lines, and fix them, but usually don't pull the slow line products ( all Buick stuff). It goes into the warehouse, behind the current stock of USA made product. When that sells out, then we see the new stuff that has the issues. That's one possible explanation.

The other is that they are flat out lying.. if that is newly produced stock, I did not bother to look for a production date on the set of 455 pistons I bought last year.

Start a new thread with your professionally appraised/measured results on those pistons, show some pics even..

This thread is now full of useless banter between two guys who should know better, and if they don't knock it off, will be watching..

JW