Autozone sell a Melling Oil Pump kit model # K-20I for 11.99.. Oil pump rebuild kits are that cheap?? Are there any other parts that I will need or will that be a complete kit with everything that is needed to perform the rebuild? -Brook
Wanna do it right? Get the Oil pump shim kit from TA Performance(Part # TA 1704) When you put the new gears into the timing cover, the gear faces should be slightly higher than the gasket surface. (Stock specs are .002-.006) If they aren't, the pump pocket is worn, and it should be reconditioned. You need to measure this as precisely as possible. The chassis manual says to put a straight edge across the gear faces, then measure with feeler gauges between the straight edge and gasket surface. Once you have this measurement, you select the correct gasket(from the TA shim kit), so that you end up with .002-.003 end clearance. For example, if the gears are .002 above the gasket surface, and you use a .004 gasket, you'll have .002 end clearance. This is important to pump efficiency.
Spoke with the mechanic today, and he said that the timing cover / oil pump housing is worn.... I am guessing the timing cover & oil pump housing is all one part? I went to rockauto.com and they have a part listed as a timing cover for $98.79.. Here is a picture of what they have on there website. Is this what I need? Do they have a good price, or would yall recommend me getting this from another supplier? ----- Thanks Brook
UPDATE I had the oil pump rebuilt with a mellings oil pump rebuild kit, I also had a mechanical oil pressure guage installed. My car still ticks when the engine gets hot.. When I first crank the car cold the oil pressure reads at idle 40psi. (no ticking) Once I drive the car for about 30 minutes the oil pressure reads 10psi at idle, and while I am driving it read about 17psi. Once the engine get hot and the oil pressure drops the ticking starts... If I let the car sit and the oil/engine cool, I can start the engine up with no ticking. But sure enough the ticking comes back once the motor is hot... The chasis manual says that the oil pressure hot should be 32psi at 2500rpm.. What could be the problem? Do you think maybe replacing the timing cover would fix this problem?
Who rebuilt the pump? Was the gear end clearance checked and set to .002? How about a booster plate and adjustable regulator? If you've done all of those things, and the pressure is still low, I'd say you need a new or reconditioned timing cover.
A local mechanic rebuilt it. I dont think he set the end clearance.. I bought the mellings rebuild kit, which included some gears, and springs.. The mechanic installed the gears ans spring and put everything eles back how it was. I have almost had it with this, I am actually contemplating just replacing the whole motor for a 350... But I will try rebuilding the oil pump again first.. I just need someone to tell me exactly what I need to buy.. TA Performance sell a complete oil pump / timing cover assembly. Everything is already assembled, all I would have to do is bolt it on... Do you think that would be a sure way to get to the bottom of this issue?
Buying a complete timing cover should solve your problem. But if you look at my previous post (#25), I tell you how to set up end clearance. Bet your mechanic didn't even consider that. All he did was install new gears, but that rarely is the problem. The real problem is wear in the pocket. The wear causes the gears(even new ones) to sit lower in the pocket. This dramatically increases end clearance, and oil bypasses the gears, lowering pressure, especially when hot. Look at post 25 in this thread. Do the measurments. If the pocket is worn, have it reconditioned(Earick Racing does this), or buy a new one. Nothing like doing things yourself, if you want it done right. Don't forget to pack the pump with vaseline when you reassemble it, and no sealant on the oil pump gaskets.
I printed out the entire post and gave it to him, and asked him about the timing cover being worn. He said "that it wasn't bad".. I wish I could do this stuff my damn self... Actually I probably could if someone walked me through step by step... I am a computer guy, I can rebuild a computer with a blind fold on. But when it come down to cars I'm lost.. I wish there was phone tech support for cars.. I would be willing to pay to have someone tell me exactly what to do... Would you consider this job to be a pretty easy and straight foward install for a first time newbie like my self?
Finding the fix to any little problem is not as simple as it would seem. A tick-tick-tick sound can be caused by the lifters not getting enough oil pressure. The cause can be simply a low oil level, low oil viscosity, dirty lifters, plugged oil lines, bad lifter(s), mis-adjusted rocker, bent lifter tube, low oil pressure due to a worn pump, housing, plugged, bent or cracked sump or sump/oil lines or a dozen other things. I've had a CRACK in the block's oil passage do EXACTLY what you are talking about. Since you have no problem at idle and the problem rears it's ugly head at speed, it raises the probability of either a restriction before the pump or leak of some sort after, causing an oil starvation to the lifters. You appear to have sufficient pressure and viscosity, but are you getting the volume? The symptoms are consistent with heavy weight oil and a restriction or leak, particularly since the guy re-did the pump with no effects. The basic solution to solving this problem is to isolate the trouble by elimination of what is NOT the problem. You have started that with inspecting the lifters, oil pump, front housing, etc. But have you tested to see if/where you are losing the oil pressure? If the lifters are properly adjusted and are in good condition, getting good oil at the proper pressure they will not be noisey. You could put some upper cylinder lubricant in the gas... Tick-tick-tick is what a sticky valve sounds like too. Wouldn't it be typical if you assumed a problem that didn't exist at all? I worked on a bad starter for a whole weekend to discover it was a dead battery...... Bob
Thanks for the info, I have a couple of questions... I don't hear a ticking on cold starts. Once the car is hot it will tick while driving or ideling. The car will continue to tick until it is shut off for quite a few hours so that it can cool. I am currently using Castol Heavy Duty straight 40 weight. Would you recommend I try a diffrent weight or brand? How do I find/test where I am losing the oil pressure? Is there a particular brand you would recommend? How could I determine if this is the problem? I noticed that when the ticking starts the car seem to respond kind of sluggish and it seems that I have to give the car more gas for it to get up and go.. The exhaust also seems to have a diffrent sound to it when the ticking starts... --- Brook
Castol Heavy Duty straight 40 weight is good if you have .0015 clearance in your bearings, but it's awful heavy. :rant: I'd test it with a 30wt and see if the problem subsides any. How do I test oil pressure? A mechanic can attach a gauge to the topside and see if oil pressure is the same. Is there a particular brand you would recommend? Marvel Mystery Oil. :TU: How could I determine if this is the problem? Run a tankful of gas with the Marvel Mystery Oil and that should fix any sticky valves. o No: Bob
OK, step by step. First get what you need. The TA 1704 Oil pump shim kit. TA1510 Oil pump booster plate. TA1502 Adjustable oil pressure regulator. A jar of vaseline. Begin by removing the oil filter. There are 6 small bolts that hold the oil pump cover/nipple to the timing cover. Carefully remove them. Separate the pump cover from the timing cover. Remove the gears. One is an idler gear, and it spins on an axle. The other gear has a shaft that mates with the bottom of the distributor. Clean the pocket out with a lint free cloth. You need to determine the gasket you need to use to get the end clearance down to .002. There is a product called plasti-gauge. It's basically plastic rods that flatten when compressed. Once they are flattened, you match their width to a scale on the package. This tells you the clearance. Plastigauge comes in different sizes to measure different clearances. You need the size that measures .002. The Auto parts store should be able to help you there. If you assemble the pump dry, and try different gaskets from the shim kit, using the plastigauge(lay a piece across each gear face) you should be able to get the end clearance down to .002. Once you have the right gasket to use, remove the gears, and pack the pump pocket with vaseline. Then install the gears. The gears will displace some of the vaseline. Clean off the excess, and the gasket surface. You should end up with the gears installed, and all the air space around the gears filled with vaseline. Assemble the pump cover to the timing cover. Install the oil filter, and fire up the engine. The vaseline will ensure the pump primes right away. The booster plate and adjustable regulator come with good instructions, if you choose to get them. I agree with Bob, your ticking could be something else, but your oil pressure is low, not so much at idle, but at cruise. It should be higher than 17 psi.
Thanks!! That is some very use full info!! I feel as if I should be able to do this myself!!! Today I got the ticking to stop!! I didn't fix the problem but just kind of patched it.. I put 4 quarts of 20w50 Vavoline, & 1 quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer in.. I drove it for about 2 hours and the lowest my oil pressure dropped to while driving was 30 Psi.. At idle to is at about 17psi... These reading where taking after I had driven it for about 2 hours!!!! NO TICKING!!!! I am so happy! I didnt want to come home, I just wanted to cruise around... I wonder how long will my patch work hold up?
just my two cents i read all the suggestion and all are good but i dont like that it is quiet till 40 /45 doesnt make sence to me////be fore you spend a.lot of money do the simple /cheap things frist one change the oil/filter ive seen a filter cause similar problems it could also to a dirty pickup screen in the oil pan i droped one and found 1/2 of a shop rag blocking the screen////// then i would go at the oil pump assembly it has a relief valve that could be stuck hope this helps luck pete
I wish it would be something as simple as the oil filter.. In the 3 months I have owned the car I have changed the oil & filter about 5 times... I think that it is a cleareance issue either the bearings or the oil pump I think.. Since I have put the 20w50 & Lucas the ticking is gone.. I think that right there points to a clearance issue...
Make that clearance(S). Now your problem is not that you don't know what the problem is, it is that you now don't know for sure what the problem WAS. Remember the original goal was not to fight aligators, it was to drain the swamp. The problem could have been a sticky valve. It could have been a plugged line that got cleared with the "gearlube". It could be that all of the bearings in the engine are so worn that the engine can't hold a decent oil pressure. In any case the problem is gone and your pressure is OK. Did the car burn any oil? Your problem still could be simply that the oil pump is not tight enough clearance. It is more likely that your bearings in general are so loose they allowed the oil to dump out before it got up to the rockers. It would be simple to "Plastigauge" the rods and put in new rod bearings, but if they are loose, everything is probably that way. Could be a cracked oil passage. Nothing has changed except now you can't tell when you've found the exact problem without a complete tear-down. You can only assume the worst and vow that the engine must be treated gently, is probably ready for a complete rebuild, but could last for a very long time with TLC. Wish my problems were so simple. Congratulations on accomplishing a goal. Bob
Hello. Just wanted to update this thread. I got my problem fixed.. I ordered the TA Performance Oil Assembly. Which included the timing cover, gears, etc... all assembled, ready to install. I took it to a shop that was recommended to me for the install. Shop Info Stan's Garage (Shop foreman is Keith) 972-298-5535 121 W Fairmeadows Dr. Duncanville Tx 75116 When I took the car to Stan's I told them that I wanted them to drop the oil pan and do some investigative work before they install the new timing cover. Once the oil pan was removed, guess what was in there... Half an inch of sludge in the oil pan. Based on that finding, the theory that was causing the problem is that once the oil got hot the sludge was getting sucked onto the oil pickup and clogging it up. That is why the oil pressure would drop, and the lifters start tapping. They were being starved for oil because the sludge would block the oil pick up... So when the car sits for a while the sludge drops off of the oil pickup, and settles back into the bottom of the pan, & cools off (becomes thicker). So when I fire the car up again after it has cooled it runs good, until the sludge is picked back up by the oil pickup. "Stan's" Cleaned out the oil pan, cleaned the oil pickup, & installed the TA oil assembly. I got my car back, and it is running good! I put it on the highway for an hour yesterday, cruising at about 65mph, with no problems!
Old fossils opinion Personally, I think this, The oil pressure is fine. those engines used what we used to call a low pressure system [ 35lb] as oposed to a high pressure system[45 lb]. 27 lb after warming up is good. You need 10 lb for every 1000 rpm. I think you have some hydrolic lifters that are crudded up and need cleaning. Since cleaning a hydrolic lifter is not practical they need replacing. Determine which lifter/lifters are collapsing and replace them and that should solve the problem. After the engine is warmed up pull the rocker arm covers and check each rocker arm to see if they are mechanically sound, ck the amount of oil getting to the top end. determine which is ratteling and replace them. doing this is cheaper and less trouble than building an engine.
Thanks for your info. But the problem has been fixed. Half an inch of sludge in the oil pan was clogging the oil pickup.
