200-r4, non-lock-up T/C trans

Im in the process at looking at ( BUYING ) a well built 200-r4 trans thats a non-lock up trans with a 4000 stall conv. and is a rollerized o No: custom built trans to handle high HP motors and built by White Racing here in michigan, it was in a 10 sec buick regal that has aprox. 8000 miles on it mainly street use and only 3 strip passes on it.

The guy said it worked great around town, but typically slipped like a 4000 stall and it was behind a big turbo V6 motor. 420-500 HP at the rear wheels.

I want to use it behind my buick 455, aprox. 420 hp at the rear wheels, 72 skylark, street/strip car mostly street.

QUESTIONS:::

Is thier any down fall using a non-lockup trans on the street with a smaller converter 3000 stall. or could I use a D5 converter with this setup with good results on the street. Could it be switched back to a lock up trans with minimum cost and use a D5 T/C.

With the non-lockup, will the overdrive 4th gear still work and be functional on the street, and do I still need a switch to activate 4th gear.

The guy said he paid $900 for this setup, and he wants WAAAAY south of this price for the trans and conv. to get it out of his garage, cause he sold the car. He said he wouldnt hesitate one bit to put it in any car as it sits. The trans has been sitting for 2 years wrapped up in a bag in his dry garage.

What is your guys opinion on the non-lockup trans for regular street use, should I bother with this 200-r4 ???? :grin:

thanks jerrold,

 

PS "rollerized" probably means the thrust washers were swapped out for the needle roller bearing type
techg8

 

If this was a race only car I would say it looks like a perfect trans for you, the overdrive function will still be fine.

For heavy duty racing purposes the non lockup converter is lighter and more durable in most cases so many racers use this type. If you use a mild stall converter then you do not need the lockup as much so a 2800 stall would still drive nice down the highway without noticeable slipping.

On the highway the lockup function is like night and day! For example, my chevy pickup with an 700R4 when on the highway at 3000 rpm in 4th gear (overdrive) and I engage the lockup converter and the rpm drop to 2750. The fuel savings is huge with the lockup engaged however I ONLY use it in 4th gear at full speed and disengage it at all other times.

Remember the stall speed will change with each engine combination you may see a higher stall speed which would be pretty loose on the street... lots of revving

I tried a 3500 stall non lockup in my truck and the fuel milage went down big time... I then went to a 3000 stall with lockup because it gives me the stall speed I want with 100% lockup on the freeway.

 

Good info !!
OK, more info today, the guy said it definitly came out of a 87 GN that white racing used as a street / strip car, and that Chris White did all the best modifications to that trans you can think of and he also seen it run 10:30's in that GN.

He then bought it from them and installed in his t-type 10:80 car. It worked flawlessly in drive on the street and strip, he never manually shifted it.

The guy had no tach, so he assumes the shifts were around the 5500 ish RPM range. going by the bar tach on his dash.

Ken & Sean thanks !!! :TU:

With this info what do you guys think now??
thanks jerrold,

 

I think this trans is no good for you, you should let me have it for my Twin Turbo Buick 350 Skylark...

 

LoL my reaction as well.

Sounds like a real good deal. Buy it, as low as you can of course.:TU:

 

See if you can get the complete TV cable and bracketry setup with it. Might save you from buying an aftermarket tv bracket etc.

 

LOL !! I was waiting for those comments, Im going to look at it after christmas, although he's not sure the tv cable is there with the trans, he cant remember and is going to unwrap it to check.

Can these TV cables be purchased somewhere seperate??

thanks again fellas!!! jerrold, :TU:

 

The TV cable for a turbo regal has different length than other cars. 84/85 are too short for use on anything else; 86/87 are longer than most, I THINK has longer actuaction length; I'd have to measure both carb stle versus T/R style. I remember it being rediculously more expensive for T/R than Monte Carlo's TV cable. (Easy to get replacements for carbed units)

 

I use the TV cable and bracket from a 86 cutlass.

The bracket is the type that bolts on via the two rear carb mounting bolts. Throttle cable and TV cable both are held by the bracket, it works great!

 

Good info!! thanks again,

Ill keep you guys posted with the out come in a few days.

Thanks jerrold,

 

you might want to check on this but I think if it is set up for a non lock up TQ you have to change something inside to use a lock up TQ again. You cant just switch to a lock up TQ>

 

Good point, the lockup solenoid and other wiring may have been removed when they built the trans so I would be careful on that aspect of the trans.

If you do want to have a lockup torque converter installed make sure you remove the pan and inspect to be sure that the lockup stuff is still there. If it is not then you will need to add it back in, or use a non lockup converter.

Either way be sure to use a high quality trans fluid cooler because the leading reason these trans die is from overheating fluid. the lockup function greatly helps this issue on the long freeway trips BTW.

 

now that I think about it more there is a one way check valve in the tip of the turbine shaft for lockup setups. IF the trans has been modified / set up for non lockup it MAY have been removed. Cheap part available at

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/700R4_4L60E_transmission_parts_p/350-00035335a.htm

And of course the lockup solenoid etc.

Overall it will be easy to switch back to lockup, but there are some parts to check on.

 

I would not want to live with a 4000 stall converter on the street. The real key to making these things work is matching the converter to your motor. The trick with our motors is to get a converter that is effecient at lower rpms. Most of us do not want to turn our Buick motors over 6000 rpm unless we have a lot of work done to the bottem end. High stall converters tend to not get effecient until you turn high rpms.

To be happy you are going to need a custom converter. Plan on $600 to $800 for that. I am at the same point right now. Do I want to keep the lockup or go unlocked. What I understand is some of the converter experts claim they get better effeciency out of the unlocked style converters. Especially if you go with the 9 or 10 inch converters. The other choice is to go with Vigilante and use the lockup. Link to a Full Throttle speed and the 2 converters that I would consider http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/items.asp+Cc+BUCONV+iTpStatus+0+Tp++Bc+

At this point I really like the lockup on mine. Flick the switch and its like having a 5 th gear. I drop about 250 rpm with the lockup. On the other hand I am blowing through 3rd at the track with the modified D5 that I run. Right now I run about 80 HP less than you. Next year I should be over 500 HP at the rear wheels so will have to make change.

 

Alright guys, I really don't plan on using this art carr 3800-4000 stall convertor, it will probably go up for sale.

My next plan now is to convert this trans back to a lockup to use in my 72 conv. skylark, 455/450 hp motor. I want to have the ease of mind that this 200-r4 can handle the hp and weight of the car.

Can I get the solinoid and wiring to convert this back and what will a 2800lockup convertor cost???

thanks jerrold,

 

You can buy all the parts you need to swap it back to lockup capable, however the trick is knowing how to do that.

Here is an example of a converter that may work for you:

http://700r4.net/27spline/700R4-Torque-Converter-2400-2800-Stall-Lock-Up.htm

 

Hey guys, thanks for all your info.

I went and picked up the trans and convertor, everything was there, kick down cable, tee handle dip stick tube.

The convertor had AC 1493 D,stamped on it, 9 1/2 in. 3800 stall, (AC) Art Carr, I started looking the trans over when I got home and found a painted over thick tag on the drivers side above the 4 prong plug that was a Art Carr tag with their serial no. on it.

This could have been or is a AC trans, and the yellow tag had 871 BRF stamped on it.

Not sure if chris white (white racing) actually did the work or that they bought it from art carr for their own race car 2 years ago and then this guy got it that I bought it from. This could be one of their $1700.+ units, remember (rollerized) fully built he said.o No:

The conv. alone is a $700. unit, I paid less than that for everything!!:Brow:

If this trans works & operates OK, I hit the jack pot.:grin:

fellas thanks again, jerrold

 

I would contact Art car give them the numbers and find out what the spec for the build were or if they even built it. I have done this in the past, many builders keep good track of the trans they build.

I caught a supposed 1200 hp rated trans this way... contacted the builder and it turned out to be a 450 hp rated trans.... I obviously did not buy it, but I almost got tricked.

BTW, I am sure this is not the case... It is nice to know exactly what you have though... You never know when you may want to add a power adder...

 

You got a great deal. BRF code (GN) trans go for $400+ just for the valve body.

I would take it to a good trans builder and have it freshened at least. Then you really know what you have. You should be able to have the converter restalled for not a lot of money and be on your way.