Can either one of you identify a correct stage 2 Holley carb from the body of the carb itself without seeing the number?
You would need to measure the throttle and venturi diameters to identify the correct center body. From the Holley catalog- Primary and secondary throttle bore diameter is 1 3/4 primary and secondary venturi diameter is 1 9/16
I might be able to pull up a pic but apparently that will not enable someone to tell whether it is the correct model Holley.
The 4781 carbs have some number designations after the #4781. The originals were just simply stamped 4781. They have since included a -1, -2, -3 after the 4781 number, as the series progressed over the years. I haven't visually compared them, so no input there. I do have an original old 4781 carb, no dash #'s after it, I could take some shots of for comparisons sake, if that'll do any good. Mine has the air horn milled off, but no other mods. They originally had chokes.
I have a lot of pics of this car. Here are some carb and engine shots. As you can see, although it is heavily optioned with all the power options, it does NOT have AC, which is consistent with the "story" that it was ordered that way to be upgraded to a Stage2 which I don't think was a standard orderable option. The seller also thinks (and I don't know) that you could order all or part of the upgrades, and believes that in this case it only got the intake and carb, no St2 heads. I don't think he knows one way or the other if the cam is the standard St1 or a St2.
In Storage Here's a pic of this GS resting in one of their storage sheds somewhere around Tokyo. I don't expect him to be a Buick expert. He's dealing in too many other vehicles as well.
stage 2 Its been a long time since I've even thought about stock stuff :grin: but If I recall right didn't the stage 2 set up use a Holley 3 barrel 830 or 850 cfm and that was why there was a notch in the B4B plenum? Chris
Guys, I can't read the List number but I can tell you this much about the carb, it was definately an over the counter part and not something taken off some other car. It does not have the part number stamped into the air horn, just the list number, so it was a service part. If the date code was visible in the picture we could see when the carb was assembled. That and the part number would ID it. Duane PS. If someone had a copy of the Wayne Roberts info I could probably figure out what the SCO was.
Chris, I think the carb type depended on when the package was bought. I know the Stage 2 set-up on Jimmy's 69 Motion car had a Holly double pumper 4-bbl on it, but then again that was Motion. Duane
So is this possibly the GSX road test car after all!!!! If it could be proven, this would be a really cool car to own!!
Pre-production GSX? Jason's post about that Car Craft article got me thinking about something I'd forgotten all about...I remember reading that article in the seventies when I located a stash of old car magazines from a used bookstore. (I think there might have been another mag that got their hands on this vehicle...Car Life?) I'm out on the road again (gee, there's a surprise...) and can't rummage around for the article, but the pointed gauge faces and white top overflow jar stuck in my mind for some reason. In the late nineties I was in IA looking at a 2nd owner Q-Q 'X (that turned out not to be for sale) and hanging with an old Buick hand (Keith Lynch) who was putting together a used car dealership down the road. The 3 of us got talking about production #'s, decoding, build sheets and date codes because the car had been modified slightly and the owner (who'd had the GSX since '74) was interested in bringing it back to stock. I had some early 70 parts (o/f jug, 3 piece rad cover etc.) that I knew couldn't be correct for this car; and Keith seemed to remember them for being introduced very late in the model year. (late spring) When I got home I rechecked the article, sure enuff; early 70 pieces in the magazine pictures...given the lead times Detroit worked with, the GSX option (or model) would have had to have been in the pipeline by late fall '69...is the SCO on the cowl tag indicative of a 'COPO' type of car, where it would have had an "internal" origin at Flint instead of the usual "external" wholesale car order origin? That might explain the low body #...and is there a code that would designate that? Would have made sense for Buick to get a 'flagship' vehicle out to the magazines for the spring...As Mike mentioned, if so it could be an interesting (and valuable) 'X. Incidentally, I'll be in Japan early next year, but I doubt the car will be...
Chris: The Stage 2 pkg. definitely used the #4781 Holley 4 barrel. That's what was listed along with the Holley flange B4B. I know my Holley flange B4B has the notch, I guess they were preparing for the aftermarket and the then popular 3 bbl.
3 barrel I thought I remembered seeing a write up some where's what seem like a very long time ago ou: in my car life, super stock, or old GSXra saying they used the three barrel on stage 2 and some Vette's from the factory o No: I'm almost 40 now I might be losing it :laugh: I have a big collection of magazines from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's I wish I had time to sit down and refresh my memory.......Chris
69 motion Duane, is there any pic's on the 69 car kicking around after all 69's were my first love and I will see if I can dig some old magazine articles up, I have a lot of good old road test and drag racing stuff, ie a write on a 70 stage 4 spd car that was road tested by every person that worked for the magazine including the secretary until it finally spun a bearing. The write ups I have are old and from the day but who know's if the factory added some extra go faster goodies just for them.........Chris
Duane, I've got Wayne's info on this car. Here you go. VIN 446370H208709 Body Number 001297 Body Color CC Glacier White Trim 188 Black vinyl buckets Date of invoice 12-23-69 Order Number 900002 Dealer Number 16-008 Dealer Name not available Invoice amount $3797.44 Re-invoice date12-10-69 Re-invoiced dealer 7-204 Re-invoiced dealer name not available Ship to dealer 24-389 Ship to name not available Reinvoice amount $3702.14 Options: A-1 Stage1 performance option B-C TH400 & full length console C-E power disc brakes & power steering D-G AM-FM & rear speaker F7 Super wide oval white lettered tires G60-15 & chrome plated wheels H-6 Rally ride control package - rear stabalizer bar, front & rear firm ride springs, and rear lower control arm assembly I-2 Forced comfort - flo ventilation J-5 Custom front and rear seat belts, and custom front and rear shoulder belts L-1 Tinted glass O-5 Remote control outside rear view mirror P-1 Carpet savers and handy mats Q-5 Power seat 4 way tilt adjuster, drivers side only on bucket seats R-1 Power windows S-7 Tilt steering wheel T-2 Electric door locks U-K U3 Convenience group (trunk light and mirror map light) and U9 instrument gauges and rally clock X-2 Rallye steering wheel *-8 Special car order
I have a copy of an original internal dept letter that Dennis Manner sent me which states what was included with the total Stage II package and says it uses the R-4781 Holley, so I gotta go with that.
