1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1, 4-Speed, 3:42 Posi, w/ AC

The point I was trying to make was......Given two identical equipped Stage1's ...4spd, air and a couple of other goodies. (Remember restoration shops charge a flat rate for hours. no matter if it is a Skyhawk or a GSX) Except one being a GSX (clown suit) the asking of each are maybe 100k apart from each other. I don't see this large of difference in identical equipped GTO,s ram air iv. With one wearing a clown suit ..the Judge. Oldsmobile I would consider differently because the W-30 Olds Is the top of the line engine package in that model.

 

I am suprised to see undercoating on a car from North Carolina/California? I have one car from North Carolina and one from South Carolina and they don't have undercoating.

 

The answer again is rarity which affects supply, demand and price. Look how many more Judges were made relative to GSx cars and especially GSX stage 1 cars. Plus in 1971 and 1972 GSx 455s were really rare and GSX 455 stage 1s were even rarer because many seem to have been ordered with 350 engines. We do no have the stats for 71 but look at 72 as an illustration.

The production numbers for the GSX stage 1, and especially the 4 speeds, are low and more like the Judge convertible. Considering the imperfect information we have for 70-72 , it appears that maybe 130 or so total GSX 4 speed stage 1 cars were made versus 287 Judge converts. If you look at the price spreads between Judge convertibles vesus GTO convertibles they are likewise really wide because Judge converts are rare relative to Judge hardtops.




6725 1969 Judge hardtops................... 1969 Buick GSX ...... N/A

108 1969 Judge converts.................. 1969 Buick GSX convert.....N/A


3625 70 Judge hardtops.............. 70 GSx stage 1 auto -- about 282

162 70 Judge converts .............. 70 GSX stage 1 4 speed --about 118


357 71 Judge hardtops............... 71 GSX yearly GSX total = 124(350 $ 455). There are 16 1971 stage 1 GSX cars and only one 4 speed in the GSX registry.

17 71 Judge convertibles .....................



72 Judge HT N/A ................................................ 72 GSx stage 1, 4 speeds = 2
72 Judge convert N/A .......................................... 72 GSx stage 1, Auto trans = 22

 

The $29,000 GS looks like it has Magnum 500 rims and not the Buick Ralley wheel.

Cheers

 

Using the numbers produce, is a logical explanation. I agree. But using that logic....How about the LS-6 Chevelles, I believe Chevrolet made over 5000 of them. Yet they regularly command over six figures. Is that, you think because of the 450 hp. top of the line engine? Yet I have heard that Chevrolet produced more LS-6 SS Chevelles than LS-5's. W-30 once again an entirely different engine, than on a standard 442. Judges have no greater HP. than what was offer on a standard GTO. I know there where some minor differences in the GSX Stage vs a regular Stage. However they both shared the top of the line engine available for that body. Don't misunderstand...I'd love to add an X to my stable. I cherish my cars and still have the desire to persue more. Maybe I'm just a little miffed at the 75K and higher differences in the asking prices between the two, when they are only separated by, besides paint and some minor add ons.

 

Two things at least contribute to this. The foremost is the potential customer base for Chevrolet muscle cars is extremely large. More people owned Chevrolets so they still have the largest following. In other words they made more LS6 cars for sure but their customer base is that much larger.

Also the LS6 was advertised back then even at 450 hp. That alone gives it mystique, desirability and a following from not only the people who owned them but the people who read and heard about them. And this reputation was passed on to the progeny of all those Chevrolet customers.

In contrast Buick has a small but loyal customer base. But many who collect those today I see are cross over customers who had no connection to Buick directly or indirectly back in 1970. They develped a taste for Buick muscle aftter the first muscle car era ended in 1972. So Buick has fewer stage one muscles cars to be had but a smaller still following.

The people who drive the top of the market are well off private collectors who want the best of each brand of muscle car for their collection. They perceive the GSX to be that and the market price is driven up for those cars accrdingly. Up there with them in price, just like the Judge converts, are 70 stage 1 converts. They are rare because of limited production and fewer converts seem to survive.


So send me that blue 4 speed will ya!!!

 

As a non Buick owner ( eventhough I am the high bidder on the aqua mist car) -- non Buick people perceive that the GSX is different. They may just be stripes and spoilers and other odds and ends but essentially the same car. However because of the perception, they bring more money in the open muscle car market. I know of a collector who will only buy a yellow 4 speed Stg 1 X and nothing else. Not even a 4 speed conv Stg 1 car. It is what it is as my Canadian friends say.

 

You're right John - it's a matter of preference.

When I bought my car 11 years ago, It was a choice between a QQ stage1 TH400, or my car.

Me personally, I'm an 'open air' kind of guy. I like to drop the top and go row gears :3gears:

You couldn't get me off my motorcycle for 8 years before I bought my car. After I bought the Buick, the bike sat.

Do whatever makes you happy! :beer

 

It is Marco. Jim Lore help me find a 71 W-30 conv years ago and I fell in love with those cars. I love the cars but I don't get attached as some do. I am on my 3 conv 71 W-30 car now. Had auto and 4 speed and I like to go thru the gears . A few months ago, I had a mini stroke and almost drove my 66 4 speed car thru the wall in my garage. It actually went off the lift. Now I am auto only. Guess getting old has some disadvantages. :Brow:

 

Thanks Jim ....to bad we can continue this discussion over a couple of :beer
It is nice to be able to have this dialog of opinions. I like to hear different views on this topic, it has been enjoyable! ....I'd rather trade....what ya got!

 

Ahem , 1971 GSX registry current
Stage 1 16 41.03 %
455 16 41.03%
350 7 17.95 %

'72 GSX

Stage 1 24 54.55%
455 4 9.09%
350 16 36.36%

So, if you extrapolate the numbers using the known '72 figures at 36.36% for 71 you have a Gran total of 44 350 cars. If you use the current percentage of '71 accounted for 22 total of the 124 . In either case small block by a fair margin is more rare. One might argue that due to the decline after '71 in the Muscle car era, that '71 would "likely" have more big block cars produced percentage wise than '72. And the current registry of '71 is likely a good representation . Of course this is speculation. And only the person holding out on the micro fiche would know for certain. I will concede that rare does not equate to value . None the less, how can you put a value on 1 of 7 ? or even 1 of 22 ?

PS Jim is just jealous because he does not own a Supercar :bla:


Regards,
DL

 

IMO it's not a combination of rarity and performance that matters most; it's image that matters most. The image of wild horsepower wars and wild designs of the muscle car era that drive prices up for some cars (more than 1900 Superbirds made and thousands of LS6s).

442s , GTOs and GSs without the wow factor just aren't as prized because they are just plain. They don't turn heads. But a Judge or GSX has the wow factor.

Mid-year corvettes have image going for them too, even though they were not rare and most weren't screamers.

Being a convertible is a separate matter which affects value...so when comparing current prices you should either compare convertibles together or hardtops together.

If you won a raffle and got to choose a 69 Judge (6800 made) or a 69 Torino Talladega (500 made), which would you take ? The wow car i would think.

Some muscle cars turn heads more than others. Stripes (LS6s), wings, graphics, etc. are what drives up prices...that's also why clones go for big money too.

 

But you have to be careful about what car you clone. GS 455 to GSX -some stripes , dash emblems, spoilers and paint. I have owned 2 X clones and each under 25k. Olds 442 W-30. Not as easy. The H heads for a 71 $6500, 2000 for correct aluminum intake, red wells 500 t0 2000 for repos or NOS ( if you can find them) You can easily spend 15 - to 20k for the clone engine parts and stripes and badges. Cloning is not cheap anymore.

 

You raise some good points. Alll support the how rare the GSX care are, especially stage 1 four speeds.

And you raise another issue that lingers on for all muscle cars. Year model does make a difference in the selling price. For Buick the 70 GS model is the top seller and this include the GSX. A 70 stage 1 will bring more than a 69 stage 1 and generally a 70 GSX will bring more than a 71 or 72 GSX. I am unclear whether a 71 will bring more than a 72.


Again it is perception of performance. The 70 GSX had the only high compression 455 engine and is more well known across the market place. The 71-72 GSXs even with a wider choice of bright colors are held back by this compression ratio difference even though they are far more rare. Plus, I would say there is one more subtle but important difference. Many like the 70 model GS grille design better than the 71-72 models. In turn, these small differences among models are reflected in their respective selling prices in a big way.

 

Yet I still think it's the WOW factor more than anything. A non-stage, yellow GSX will sell for more than a Stage 1 non GSX (in any color).

Why are Mopar's so hot ? The wild factory colors and graphics, not the rarity, compression or track times.

Whether you take your 20 footer to cruise nights or you have your own museum of trailer queens, what impresses people is WOW cars.

Stage cars aren't WOW cars to most collectors. Superbirds are. GSXs are.

Comparing the Buick lineup against itself isn't the right comparison. The key thing is too look at the usual big dollar cars to see what they have in common. It's not compression, torque, HP, rarity, etc. It's WOW. WOW is why MOPAR cars are the bomb, even 383s.

That also explains why 1969 and 1970 cars are usually the top muscle cars. More WOW. Judge, GSX, Daytona, Superbird, Hurst Olds, etc. Before and after those years, most cars were duller.

 

Southport is still charming but not a fishing village anymore. The realtor's sign says " Let us make visitors locals. " The locals say -- Why?