1970 Buick GS 455...amazing, reserve isn't even met at 26k!

Guys,

While I will refrain from the discussion about values an such, I will say this..

Unless one of you has seen this car in person, be very careful about judging a car like this, with a fresh repaint, being offered by a dealer, as a "beautiful car."

Fresh paint and shiny chrome can hid a lot of ills.. I just would hate to see somebody shell out big dough for a car that may not be all it's cracked up to be. And this car has all the earmarks of a "flipper". Dealer bought it, threw in some new upholstery, had it painted, and then put it on the market. When cars get done like this, important stuff can be skipped, because it's not someone's pride and joy.

I just thought this would be a good example of a car on the higher end of the price scale, and the need for personal inspection, before going hog-wild bidding on ebay.

I have no basis to condemn this particular car, but a word to the wise..

JW

 

I agree with you Jim, very well said! :TU:

 

Great points Jim.

These are the reasons that when my car was stripped to steel I documented the entire job in photos. A future buyer might find great $value$ in knowing exactly what is under that spectacular paint job.

 

I guess I don't understand the hole pricing theory. I have read numerous posts about the cost of having work done. Some of which are currently on the board. I have also read 2 horror stories about spending $40,000 - $66,000 on body off cars that aren't even completed. But in the same sentence guys complain because finished cars are priced too expensive or are commanding to much money. Maybe I'm missing something here. o No:

 

reserve is met, car is now at $ 27,500.00

henry

 

Let me explain..

We are going to just pull a car out of the air here, as I don't think it's fair to use the car in question for an example.. it may be A-1..

Let's take a 70 GSX for example..

Dealer buys it, paint is faded, few minor rips in the interior, motor is tired, minor rust on the around the wheelwells.

He gets a deal on it.. say 18K..

He's a car dealer.. or maybe even a private party, who makes money on the side fixing things up to sell..

These folks are typically after a profit margin, that is the driving force to get the car done. They want it to look nice at the time of sale, and very little attention may be paid to fundimentals, material quality, and correctness.

The old "any old screw will do" mentality.

They "fix" rust instead of replacing panels. Cars with rust in the rear quarters get automatic panel replacement in this shop, and any other shop that is doing a quality repair.. because if you don't take the panel off, your very likely not to be able to get to, and deal with, the hidden rust.

They don't strip the old paint, which is weatherchecked, and just about to lift, they just "sand it down real well".

and on and on.. shortcuts are taken, in every aspect of the "restoration".

Now, let me point out here that not every dealer or individual is like this.. there are folks out there who will do things right, with cost and profit margin as a secondary concern..

Anyway... back to our bad example..

The car gets finished.. paint is shiny.. underhood is painted, motor has a "quicky rebuilt" and a fresh coat of paint, a couple new seatcovers and carpet in the interior... now mind you, the floor had some rust, but it is outside the parameters of the goal in mind here, to bother treating that rust, so the carpet goes in because it will "look fine". After all, it's not his car..

These decisions get made over and over.. and more often than not, it's the inexpensive option chosen..after all, he's trying to make money selling the car.

And after all is said and done, it hits ebay, with a reserve price in the 40K range.. Lets say the seller put 8k in it..


Enter the buyer.. everything looks great in the pics.. ya, the booster is painted instead of plated, and he notices a couple things, but no biggy.. right? The buy can put together say 60K max to buy the car.

A bidding frenzy for the car ensues, our potential buyer is on the board here, and sees guy after guy marveling about what a great car it is, but in reality, we knowing nothing about it.. And the potential new owner see this, looks at the post count of some of these guys, and figures man, that must be an awesome car..


A bidding war starts, and I would not put it past a lot of folks out there, to be involved with "team selling" to get the value up. Let's say it ends at 53K.. and our potential buyer wins the bid.. That is certainly not out of the range of value for he thinks is a correctly resotored GSX.

Didn't go higher, because the guys among us, with deep pockets, but who are savey to these types of cars, stayed away..


Our new owner tinkers on a couple things to make them right, and he finally has is "dream car". Or so he thinks..

Time goes by.. he becomes more educated about the car, going to shows, events and reading the board here.

One day, while dutifully waxing his pride and joy, he notices a little rust bubble forming around the rear wheelwell trim.. Mnnn.. he thinks..must be minor.. and since no attention was paid to getting the car the correct shade of yellow, and it was painted with the stencil kits, but the painter, having maybe never even seen a real GSX, just throws them on as they come outof the box, the spoiler is missing the bow in the stripes, or maybe it's in the wrong spot, and I can assure you the stripes on the front fenders are "flat".. which I have seen many times.. Anyway, the new owner reluctantly decides it's time for a new coat of paint, and maybe fix all the "little things" that he knows are wrong with it.. Seems that the paint used is just not "quite right" in a few areas around the car..

He sends it to me.. Welp, ok, correct GSX paint jobs start at $9500.. for a complete strip, disassembleing the car to paint it correctly, striping it, painting all the component parts correctly, assembly, good (read that expensive) paint, and all the extra effort it takes to make one of these cars really nice. This includes painting the inner fenders, core support ect.. The owner sighs, takes a deep breath, and ok's the estimate.. after all, he just paid a load of cash, a couple of years ago to buy the car.

But I am worried, because I see the rust bubble, and know what very well may be behind that.. the lines on the car are not sharp.. which is typically an indication of much deeper problems, like an inch of body filler down the side of the car.

I get into it.. and sure enough, it's got enough filler in it to seal up a missle hole in the side of a battleship, those little bubbles turn into rust holes in the quarter...

Now it needs the panel replacement it should have had in the first place.. I find the rust in the floor when removing the interior panels for the paint job (I always take a peak at stuff like this) and on and on.. All of this adds up to more time, and more money..

So, what's the point of our little story here?

A lot of Buick guys are smart, and realize that shiny paint may not be all that is is cracked up to be.. they are wary of "restored cars" that just appear out of the blue, that nobody knows about. There is no known person in the community to call, and see exactly how it was done..

So, the price for some of these "restored" cars, tends to stay a little soft. I personally know that a select few cars, in orginal condition, with rare options, have sold for over 100K. Cars with restoration by "known restorers" have sold for well into the high 5 figures.

But there are far more of these "flip cars" out there, then there are the ones that were done correctly.

Even if I wasn't in the business, I would be much more likely to pay big dollars for a desireable car, still wearing it's faded factory paint, worn seatcovers, and with the wear and tear a 34 year old car gets, than I would be to buy something shiny..

At least I know what I am getting..

For those just looking in on this discussion, and interested in a shiny car, I urge you to go out and personally inspect it.. often times, there are tell-tale signs that you can pick up on, if you know where to look. If you don't feel you have the capability to tell a diamond from a lump of coal, give me a call, or seek out someone else who does.. I have saved a few guys a lot of money, with this type of deal.

Beware of 'appraisal services'.. while there are a few of them who really know Buicks, and can give you an accurate assesment of what it is, the reality is that most appraisals I have seen, or thousands of dollars off..

Be an informed buyer, and avoid the senario above.. I would much rather do a car the "first time", than to have to re-do a shoddy resto..

JW

 

Nothing like doing a resto yourself to focus an appreciation for the tremendous number of hours it takes to do it right. Another shocker is the total dollars for the various parts you have to hunt down that originally you really never realized were needed.

 

I think the Buicklawyer is on to something here. This car is a numbers matching 455 GS. All body panels are original to the car. Parts redone on the interior are front seats, headliner, and rugs rest is original. Top side engine redo with cam and valve job. Owned by the same person since 81. If this were a Chevelle SS 396 same equipment, do you think the price would be at $27,500?? They would be touting the rarity of the color combo. Why is there not the same market for this car??? After all it is faster, quieter, better handling....... ETC. We should be promoting the upside potential!!! I do not think that anyone hopes the market will go down??

Jim Weise is also right on with the "quicky repaint". Not what I think happened to this car, but certainly something to look out for.

Having done several frame off's, I do appreciate the amount of work that goes into doing something right. People do take short cuts when money is the only issue. Again, not what I think has happened to this car.

I like this car! Talked to the dealer and feel he is pretty honest about the car. If I flew out, and was not satisfied with his representation, he would pay for the trip. Think it might just look good out here in Colorado for the money!! This will force the garage issue.

 

I would venture a guess that none of the 100 thousand dollar buicks Jim refered to have changed hands on ebay or in any other auction format. The truly great cars never reach an auction. I would guess I am like a lot of other guys if there is a real good car next door I would buy, just like the guy would buy the one ten states away from the guy next door! Why would you buy a car sight unseen when the seller gives a long detailed discription assuring you of all you want in a car then at the end states AS IS WITH NO GUARANTEE! Is it rust free, is it numbers match! No rust and yes it is numbers match but I WILL NOT GUARANTEE that! AUCTIONS???????

 

Sold!!!!

Sold for $27,600.00 . Santa bought it... FOR ME!!

NOT but seriously did any members look at this car or buy it? I can only wish it was mine...

 

Sold

The seller is a friend and customer of mine. I sold him 6 cars , all restored,4 frame offs as good as can be , in the last 2 years. He sells nice cars. The car is going to England. I offered close to the selling price last week but missed it by just a few $$. Not a car to make alot of money on, but a nice car to keep and drive. John

 

Isn't that the purpose of owning them o No:

:Brow:

:laugh:

 

That would be cool for them pulling up next to a mini in that BBB.

 

:3gears: :Brow:

 

Gs

I live in Roanoke and go by Shawsville all the time. Lee has some pretty nice cars although I've never bought from him, but a friend of mine bought a 69 Camaro RS SS from him. Worth every penny. He usually prices them on the money. You aren't going to make any money on the cars you buy from him, he's a dealer so he makes what can be made, but you will get your moneys worth. And no I don't know him personally, I just lust after his cars.

 

Oh yes. These should be treated much like a fine arts purchase. Get what you like to look at or use. If it happens to be more valuable later on, that is just secondary to your enjoyment.

I have no desire to ever sell mine. I like to look at it, and drive it too much. The fact that its worth 3 or 4 times my initial purchase price only gives me peace of mind that if I NEED to unload it I'll do well. Certainly more fun than having the initial investment in a bank or stocks. Plus, considering how low that investment was eleven years ago I have nowhere to go but up in terms of value.