Sometimes these " Show only Parts" are more expensive than everyday driver parts which can be made to look as good as "Show Only" Im in the who cares category
Any part that is re stamped is made to deceive someone, even if it is unintentional. In the case of a sale where the seller does not disclose it, well that is flat out wrong, but at a show, an observer might think it was a legit born with original part. In either case, it's deception.
I don't get "show only" parts, with the exception of prototype cars, like Brad's GSX. Same thing with cars that are "Garage Art": What is the purpose of a CAR that is NEVER driven? To a degree, I would be be on the edge about 'certain' cars. Like the famous 'Last Grand National" And the "Last GNX". They are merely CARS... Very special cars, especially to their owners...
Unless it's a judged show where they look for that who cares. How many times did you go to a show and look at the part numbers on the carb or dist. I go to enjoy looking at the cars, not the parts that are on them. Now if someone is selling a part and represents it wrong on purpose that's a different ball game.
What I found out in the Corvette world is that this is standard procedure for Bloomington Gold and other high-end judging events. Evidently, fees to be judged can run quite high. Recently, a car-for-sale listing on the Corvette Forum stated that the owner spent $20,000 having the car judged: "The expenses involved in obtaining these awards could surely exceed $20,000.00." https://www.hemmings.com/classified..._medium=email&utm_source=EDaily&utm_campaign= Now, this PARTICULAR car does not seem to have such parts, but evidently, with original K-H knock-off wheels selling for $20,000 a set and certain rare dated parts like early smog stuff, it is quite common for owners to "rent" these parts for judging and return them afterward. This way, they get a Bloomington or other certificate and can increase the price of the car substantially. Unfortunately, Corvette people are pretty knowledgeable (not that Buick people are not, but there are MANY more years of desirable Corvettes and the prices are sky-high when compared to Buicks) and the owner will probably have to admit to this when selling. In addition, being a pretty-much hand-built car--see the photos I posted of the "line" in another thread--there were many variations from certain dates, etc. For example, I have a "late" '66, which means that they automatically (by federal law) installed the shoulder belt fasteners inside the rear wheel well, which made it much easier for me to put (aftermarket) shoulder belts in my car, by the way. I had NO IDEA about this before getting into the Corvette world of craziness, but I am learning every day! SO, depending upon your specific car and what you are going for, I would say that "borrowing" or "renting" specific parts for judging is not that unheard of, although I must admit I NEVER heard of it when I was doing Buicks. Naive, I guess...now where are those copper cotter pins I need??? Cheers!
It’s deceptive period. Real is real, and that’s the bottom line……. Now if it’s just a display only piece, to me it’s like looking at a picture in the book of a Picasso, it’s cool but to stand in front of that original Picasso it’s Amazing cool. Now if selling and disguising the re-stamped parts on or off a car well then it’s plain criminal deception.
Wouldn't that Bloomington Gold award be a little misleading if it was done with borrowed or rented parts that were removed as soon as the award was given? A car could be represented in a sale as a Bloomington Gold Car when in fact in it's current configuration it's more Harbor Freight Silver worthy
Absolutely! However, given the ability of Corvette people to check every bolt head for the "correct" pattern for that date of build, I would be surprised if a KNOWLEDGEABLE buyer would be fooled. Most people, from what I understand, hire a professional survey person BEFORE buying a C-2 given that they cost so much money and are very expensive to repair and/or buy original parts for--what isn't these days? I bought NOS Buick parts from Year One (still have the old catalogs!) for next to nothing in the '80's-early 90's, and a Kleiner restoration was $15,000 plus parts! So yes, it is not right, but I doubt anyone would get away with it at a very high level given the scrutiny the best cars get. Having typed that, there are people who do not perform due diligence and will get screwed IF they find out later that the parts for the award were rented. My guess is that if you only rent one part, you would reveal that to the buyer. If you rented the wheels, for example, that is $20,000 hit on the car, so pretty important to the buyer should he/she want to be judged in the future. I must say it is a mystery to me why they are so insane on every bolt as many of the cars are driven like mine is, although maybe not as much. On my award-winning '72 Stage 1 Convertible, I NEVER drove the car except to shows, so I had to completely change my mind-set when I retired and decided to get a car to DRIVE as much as possible. I don't think I could buy (if I had the money!) the 100-pt GSX of my dreams and drive it every day, but I will never have to worry about that, so...
Firmly in the Who gives a crap group. As someone who doesn't care about my car being better, more rare, or the most valuable model possible I don't get the whole hang up on numbers matching and date codes. The fun for me is in driving, and I'd rather have a very nice Skylark with an aftermarket carb, manifold, and distributor instead of a damn near rusted in half "1 of whatever" model that had a certain number stamped on a distributor 50+ years ago. There's plenty of those lowly Skylarks and GS350s that have had very healthy power plants built or swapped in that will run with or past your king of the hill from way back. If people weren't as hung up on the virtual dick measuring by way of who's car is the best you wouldn't have to worry about some guy trying to decieve or cheat you out of your money on a high dollar part because there'd be no incentive for him to produce the fake.
Not to deal with the Corvette people, and by the way, this is exactly why I set up the judging the way I did, to specifically not get into this type of thing, but regarding our cars, What I see “as show only parts” basically pertains to 69-72 Air Cleaner foam seals. After either keeping them for years, or spending some $ on them, a lot of the guys run reproduction foams and then swap out for the real ones for the shows. This way they are not damaged/flattened, as they are not easily obtained. For my 69 Motion Equipped car, I swap out the air cleaner. I run the car with an open element air cleaner, then swap it out for the “Fly Eye” air cleaner for the show only. This is due to a safety concern. The fly eye air cleaners use a thin foam element as the filter, and if the carb backfires, the element lights up and sometimes burns the car down. This was made quite clear to me by several people, so I only use it for display at the shows. I have also known some of our people to borrow wheels/tires for a show. Usually it is because of delays in getting them, but it has been done. Those are the main things I see in our world and frankly I could care less what the other guys do as it is none of my concern. Duane
Unless people can document ALL THE PARTS seen on a car are the ones it came with, ITS ALL DECEPTION. I don’t care either way, these cars will last longer than us humans, and here are some people that get their panties all bunched up cause a part has a minor blemish and take care of their “ collector car” better than their aging parents or sick family member
This thread is already going south, and I don’t know why I even posted here. Why are so many people filled with hatred today? Can’t people just get along with each other? Duane I’m getting close again.
I guess my opinion is a Bloomington Gold status should only affect value if the car is sold exactly as it was judged.
I apologize if my comments were part of what you referenced above. There's no hatred or malice intended towards anyone on any side of this discussion, just my opinion as it was asked by the poll. Even if I had Elon Musk's money I wouldn't be worried about numbers or rarity. I'd be more likely to try and buy something like the Beater or swap a healthy fuel injected big block and modern 6 speed into a Skylark before I'd target a perfectly restored GSX.
I'm not even sure why this "show only " parts thing even worth discussing here.. I left the Corvette show car Bloomington Gold , NCRS stuff years ago. Dealing/talking with some of them became almost insulting ..... almost as bad as talking politics with family on Thanksgiving day! This site is not without it's own problems, but it's a whole lot better than the Corvette world... God, B.A.T. has turned into a bloodbath over a 1970 W30 convert! The collector word ,no matter what you collect is filled with fake/fraudulent stuff. It's always been buyer beware and my favorite quote " trust but verify " ' I finally purchased the correct Stage 1 distributor , from a member on this board, I paid his price.. You know why ? He is trusted and verified here! Regards.... Frank.
Duane et. al, Sorry if I steered the thread in the wrong direction. I guess I remain totally surprised by what I have found when changing GM brands a few years ago. After 49 years of buying and palying with Buicks, I decided I had accomplished all I wanted to there and went for a "smaller" car. The idea that people rent or borrow parts was totally new to me from Corvette-world. I guess Buick people do it--I sold my last set of '72 NOS air cleaner foams to a well-known board member a year or two ago at a very reasonable price since that is what Buick people do in my experience. I saw them listed on ebay a few days later for thousands and asked him what was up with that, since I had traded with him for years and knew he was not like that. Anyway, he had a good explanation, so enough. I totally get that situation for shows, etc., and it seems righteous to me. I sold all my remaining "parts" as they were, to Fred when he was down here at his FL place a few months ago, and he took them all, even though I KNEW he would throw 1/2 of them away since they were junk--including original but squashed foams! Buick people are pretty good, and I HOPE someone gets the few really good and rare parts I had from Fred when they need them. As much as I enjoyed the meticulous learning of the Buicks over the years, and being able to look at a loose screw or bolt and knowing EXACTLY where it went on which year car, I must say I was totally taken by surprise by the Corvette world, as Frank mentions above. Since mine is a driver, I don't participate, but I do tend to call them out on the Corvette Forum when it gets really weird...which I am sorry to say is way too often. I enjoyed chasing down the parts for my various Buicks over the years and learning about the year-over-year changes, etc. It is an AMAZING hobby. I refuse to participate in the Corvette madness, but love DRIVING the car and going to local gatherings with something I enjoy as much as I did the Buicks--but have no issues driving to Publix or the library! Cheers!
I agree, the same goes for tampering with an odometer in my books. Let’s say a guy rebuilds his car and decides to set the odometer to 0, he claims he doesn’t ever want to sell it. Years later when the car is sold by who knows whom it’s been tampered with and the new buyer may or may not know.
To deceive is wrong but when you look at our cars and what we do to them , you could debate originality to the end of time. Famous phrase, "My car is all original ." How many cars are left with all original parts , paint , finishes,chrome, seats, carpets , fan belts, tires , etc. How many off us would prefer original rust ?
