For one I am not a hater I like the fact the heads are being done I for one have waited just as long as anybody else has. But again we have a set of heads that can sink you over 2500 bucks BRFORE PORTING and there are no results from comparing a ported set to the new alums. and how much is it going to cost to port the crap out of those heads 800$, a thousand more. CNC port how much more is that going to cost. I am glad that someone has the cash laying around to pickup a total of 3 sets. If I had that kind of cash I would have built a bad ass turbo motor with ported heads or used one of the many sets laying around and put the 350 on the map. on the map. I really don't see what the big deal is in telling us what the final results are of the heads You have to go to the track to see if you made a improvement on your power adders the sound and stupid seat of pants don't tell you crap. What I want to know is why did it take a set of aluminum heads to build a 350 Buick motor, What no one could build one with iron heads that are ported to go faster than me. Am I the only one that had the guts to build one besides a FEW others here. Probably cost you 1200 to port stock heads.
ya big show-off btw, picked up a pair of holleys today to use on a 2-4 setup or atop the 471 or 671. really would help if we had MORE info on the alums.
I agree with half of what you said here. I don't think your 350 is the benchmark build though. Spraying your time down is not that big of a deal..
Soon as Autotec returns my pistons at the right size, , Ill finally get my n/a eng back together. Been way longer than I expected.
You agree with half ofd what I said, what half do you disagree with. Well then who's engine could be the benchmark for the 350 then if you think mine is not. Just a simple 350 engine with 10.5 comp with forged pistons, cross drilled crank, 73 rods, oil mods done to the engine to get better oiling, port matched intake to the ported 235-176 heads. Nothing special right? Darn thing has lasted 25 years with 10 years of spraying it, I would say that has something to say about the 350 Buick. With at least 500 runs down the 1/4 mile nothing special there. I bet at least 50 on nitrous. no big deal there either. I got an idea why not take that 350 Apollo and put in a hot 350 instead of the 430 you plan on building. I at least attempted to do the 350, hardly anyone else has, just a lot of talk going on. There was Nobody building a 350 in 1994 when I built mine. I can't believe it has taken 25+ years to get Aluminum heads and a SP intake. and now you want to take the 350 out of the Apollo and put in a 430 well there you go. BTW I am waiting for Extended Power to get his car to the track as I think it will do really well Demko did a nice job too as well as a couple of other guys from here. but it is very few.
I can't believe you're complaining cuz it took 25 years for product to come out. Think about the supply and demand issue. How many 350 high performance increases are really out there? That's a lot of coins on addressing a demand in a small market don't you think? Either be appreciated and grateful that something is coming or don't say nothing at all. But a lot of chest thumping for a small market kind of ridiculous if you ask me. At least the 350 is still evolving and not literally dead. Yeah sure everyone's getting older but you know what? That's your choice to stay in a small market and wait for things. SMH
25 years and you are going mid 13s. If you massaged your way deep into the 12s then maybe. The 430 is already in the apollo. Couldn't trade the 350 for a 50 dollar bill so it went in the metal dumpster.
Slicks, etc. on that car? Are we talking purpose built cars for racing or drivers that go to the track on weekends?
talking about perfection. sure it has slicks just like demko's car. everything done to zane's engine/car with perfection and with less aftrmrkt parts than demko's. go check out a nhra stock class car sometime.
Gotta say that I tend to agree with you. Laying that kind of cash out for a set of heads that, pocket ported, flow about the same as a stock vortec 5.3 head? Seems like a bad investment. I would expect a 350 with aftermarket heads and roller cam to be making an easy 500... should be more than that with a decent street/strip cam. I love the fact that they finally made the 350 heads, but I'm really surprised that they aren't flowing the same as an iron ported head out of the box, with the potential for flowing high 200's, low 300's, which is what small chevy aftermarket heads are flowing. Heck, factory LS3 stuff is in the 320-330 range at .600 lift! I understand that the port configuration lends to better flow on the LS, so there is that. Smallish bore is not helping either. I would just like to see the Buick 350 compete. The block has great potential.
Also keep in mind there is more to performance than just head flow. The actual performance potential is shown by dyno and track performance. Just because the out of the box flow numbers aren’t dazzling doesn’t mean that they won’t perform. TA could have easily developed a huge running casting that produced huge flow numbers but lack of velocity and bad street manners. They didn’t, as with the SP-3 intake they balanced street manners with performance. With all the restrictions required to make these bolt on and go there is only so much that can be done to improve flow unless the intake and headers are completely re developed. It is going to take some trial and error to get max potential out of ANY aftermarket cylinder head. My head porter has been improving 455 alum heads for 20+ years and it’s a constant improvement evolution. There are several advantages these heads have over stock: 1. Low shipping costs. Shipping iron heads for porting is expensive and only certain people know how to find the flow in the irons. 2. Repeatable consistency, out of the box with 10.5:1 and a good cam these heads will work great! Iron head porting and rebuilding can cost as much as the bare alum castings. And then you hope you don’t crack the irons as they get so thin when heavily ported. 3. Easier to port, more porting for the $ it’s just so much less time consuming. 4. The ability to use low cost sbc rollers 5. Closed chamber head design, we can mow optimize quench. This could be a huge advantage, we will find out soon. 6. Of course the light weight is nice. We are losing about 80 pounds off a stock engine ( intake and heads) and even more loss with headers. Instead of complaining about the heads how about we utilize them and do some nice builds! We have every single piece of the puzzle to create amazing 350s. Unlike the 455, it is low cost and easy to find a nice 350. We have block girdles available. Billet cranks from King can be ordered with any spec you want. Stroker, stock, smaller rod journals it’s all possible. Pistons are now affordable, any size or compression toy want. Rods are now affordable, about half of what they once cost. The single plane intake is awesome, crap I spent $1200 back in the day when we were having them custom made. We also have modern bolt on EFI that self adjusts, you can bolt on turbos and literally have the engine tune it’s self. We also have CSU carbs available that keep the air fuel ratios in order at all boost levels. It’s an exciting time for the 350, let’s be positive instead of bashing each other.
I think many are losing sight of the big picture here. The average enthusiast is not going to build an all out motor with custom parts and extra machine work. Most just want a mild engine that can be bolted together and run reliably. These heads will allow that with ease out of the box. Based on provided flow numbers they are comparable with most entry level sbc aluminum heads. Keep in mind how many companies offer parts for the sbc and how long they have been doing it for. There is no reason you can't put together a mild 350 with catalog parts and make over 1hp per ci with these heads. And before scoffing at 350hp just try to find more than a handful of SBBs making that much power. It is enough to run low 13s in a full weight car. If you want to see more support and more high power SBB builds, it starts by catering to the average car guy, not the diehard Buick enthusiast. These heads need to sell before there is ever a next step. This forum is one of the first things to pop up when you search for Buick performance and many would-be builders might get discouraged reading some of these posts.
Not going to lie, I have a '71 SBB 350 (.030 over) sitting in my garage. I was going to try and off load it along with two sets of stock heads. It was the original motor that came out of my car. However, with the uncertainty of my 455 build (long story), and now with alum heads, I may keep that motor as a back up. Had these heads been available back in 2008/9, I may have never gone the BBB route. Exciting to see these things come to fruition. I will definitely be watching the SBB builds and see where these motors go!
An 5.3L LS engine has a factory bore size of 3.779" vs a sbb 350 with a factory bore size of 3.800", the sbb looks bigger to me. The untouched factory 5.3L heads flow around max intake @ 227 CFM with plenty of "velocity" right from the factory. TA's first mistake with their sbb 350 heads was copying the factory intake port configuration design. It can be corrected but will need welding if there's a coolant passage in between the intake and exhaust valve to delete the swirl port design so the valve is centered in the port which will allow more flow on the unshrouded side of the valve. Which is only viable on easily weld able aluminum heads so perhaps potential of even more flow over 300 up to 340 maybe? Maybe a Canadian head porter can experiment with that if he has easy access to someone that can weld aluminum if he doesn't? Some people are getting carried away posting about "velocity", there isn't enough room to make the port so big that the "velocity" is lost so bad to make the port lazy!(unless its a total crappy designed port) Actually the velocity needs to come down so the flow can go up, its a balancing act to keep the velocity maxed or as close to maxed as possible for the given rate of CFM flow. With too much velocity the air goes sonic(when the air speed hits the speed of sound) to fast in the lower RPMs and after that the flow can't go any higher, that's it done which kills RPM potential.
Nice post! I rave and love these heads...CHI...for the Ford small-block and they flow just is equal or better than the stage 2 The -stage 4 heads... Of course they're pushing well over a 900 horsepower out of these small block swinging into 9000 to 10000 RPMs
