Oh man, I gotta know more!!!!!! Am I the only one who thinks an extra $10 is worth it to watch AND learn??? The mauals don't really do it for me. Guess my brain is wired weird....:TU: LOL!!! On my Impala the settings are really low. It is very common for them to WARP the rotors.ou: Oh I HATE guys who won't hand start lugs. They just BRRRRRRRPPPPP em on and blame me by saying " I stripped it by removing the flat tire later on...:rant: :spank: Ther's a bar-fly near me that does AWESOME work for beer and lil' $$$$$:beer
I did the same thing with my "T" in my avatar. Brought it in for tires and specifically wrote on the work order in big letters "DO NOT DRIVE". I'm in the waiting room, hear it start and watch as the guy pulls out gives it just enough to come up on boost, blow the tires away and get sideways (fortunately it is a four lane with a center turn lane so he hit nothing). He scares himself silly, turns around and comes back to me waiting in the parking lot. I'm 6'2"/240# and used to powerlift so jerking him out by his shirt and setting him on his butt was easy. Manager is trying to keep it from getting out of hand in front of an audience and rushes the guy back inside. What is the reason for tightening lug nuts to the point you can't get them off? 1. Shop crossed a lug nut on my wife's Lincoln, continued to drive it on with the air wrench, rounded it completely and let it go out of the shop like that. We took a 3500 mile trip and found it when I tried to rotate the tires on our return. They offered a free brake job. Yea' I'll let you do the brakes moron. 2. Shop failed to put a smear of lube on steel lug nuts against aluminum rims and they galled so badly I had to cut the nuts off with a dremel to get the rims off later. I never shop stricly for low bid, I don't mind paying more for good, competent service/products becasue it is cheaper in the long run but too many people just don't care anymore. Mikey
My dad bought a 1976 Nova 350 that I special ordered for him. Power windows, 350 4 bbl, POSI, buckets, gauge package. Basically SS package without the SS. He thought SS was like Nazi. Anyway, I thought it would be good to change the rear fluid and trans fluid after breakin at around 1000 miles. So I take it back to the dealer. (Chevy Chase Chevyland) I marked the bolt heads and adjacent surface lightly with a scribe to make sure they actually did it cuz they gave me a big lecture as to how it was totally unnecessary. Sure enough they didn't do a thing but charged us for it. I went back and argued with them to no avail but when I had crawled under my Dad's car to check my whole key chain set came out of my pocket onto the street (went back, never found them). That was a pain to deal with as well.....
A week ago today I took our 2008 Dodge Magnum RT to the dealer to have a tire pressure monitor sensor replaced on warranty. The first time I drove the car was last Saturday. It has a monumental brake pulsation that it never had before. To replace the sensor, the right front wheel had to be removed. The only possible explination for the pulsation is that the wheel was not properly torqued. Now what do I do? I do not feel that machining the rotor is the proper repair. I also do not believe that replacing one rotor is the correct way to deal with the issue either. I have always subscribed to the philosophy that when it involves brakes, what you do to one side, you do to the other. I'll bet $100 that the dealer will not replace both front rotors with new factory units. I am also not sure that I want to take the car back to a shop that employs "technicians" who are not knowledgeable enough to properly torque wheels. I would have preferred to live with the amber tire pressure sensor light on in the instrument panel. I hate taking my car to the fu%^*&!##$$?g shop!
I think the problem is that there is a lack in pride of workmanship these days. Not just in the automotive industry, but in general. As some of you might know, I repair automotive equipment. I take great pride in my work. I've even gone so far as to tell customers that the equipment I service is really mine and that they just use it. Sometimes I feel like signing my name to some of the work I do. Customers have cought me gazing at my work with a smile on my face. Sounds corny, but its true Its sad really. A tech should work on the car like its thier own. And there are alot of great mechanics out there. But the few bad ones there are ruin it for all the rest. Its the same in any field.
Some say, "do it like it was your car". My answer to that is I will do my best to do it better as I'm getting paid for it. You just need to be willing to pay for my time. Don't think your coming to get a deal or try & beat me down. I'll tell you right up front to take it to someone else. It most cases many get WAY more than they are charged for. Don't forget, when these cars were newer many different people worked on them. There was definitely more pride in workmanship back then. I still strive to accomplish that today. But, working on 30-40-50 + yr. old cars you have 30-50+ yrs. of engineering by others that need to be brought back to where they are supposed to be, & that takes time. How many times have you thought to yourself "It'll only take an hour or two to do a certain job". Now the week-end is over & your not done yet.
John, I think you should tell the service MGR. exactly what you just said. Then just look at him.... and wait......maybe he will fall all over himself apologizing and making sure to put his "best man on it", etc.
I have a hard time leaving a vehicle as well. I hat to admit it, but I've been known to wait many hours at a shop to make sure all is well. The temptation is always there for a mechanic to take it for a spin to: (???) even when asked not to...
With classic cars, I've never had a problem; - most of the mechanics I've had working on them appreciated them. They liked the change. I had an old 220SE Mercedes once that needed some fuel injection tuning, and the mechanic at the shop I took it to actually enjoyed working on it because he trained on them. It was a crappy time consuming job that cost me, but both he and I were happy with the results. The car thought it was a 300SL when he was finished, and he thoroughly enjoyed the roadtest; -which according to Mercedes, means the car has to be put through it's paces. Working in some of those "horror story" shops that have been described in previous posts motivated me to learn how to fix my own cars. I only trust shops where I can get to know the mechanics or owners. But they still only get the jobs that I can't do by myself. However, new car dealers just piss me off to no end. The wife had an Alero that went through 5 dash clusters, each having either a failed temp gauge or fuel gauge. Each time the shop couldn't get it done on time, or there was always some stupid problem which would mean the car would have to sit there another day. Finally I took the service manager over and gestured out the window where my 46 Buick was standing, (my back up car at the time) and promptly lost my mind. "Just look what you're forcing me to drive; a car that's older than every one here! - So where's my new car, - in the shop, again! You know the funny thing about that old car? I know how much gas it has in it and I know how hot it is. My new "improved" car? No, I have to carry a f***ing dipstick and a thermometer! For 3 weeks already! WTF!..." Now it still seems every time I come back from a dealership I feel like I need a shower. As the cars become more proprietory and complicated, one is forced to rely on these people more and more. The mechanics they crank out don't know what a carburetor or a set of points look like, they've taken that section out of the book. In fact, if they can't hook it up to a code reader they're worse than useless with absolutely no troubleshooting skills. If I could find a decent mechanic to take my new vehicles to, I'd be very happy. As it stands I hate leaving a car at a dealership, one never knows how much over estimate you'll be gouged, or if some ham-fisted teenage moron with a newly minted tech's certificate will do more damage to it, while failing to diagnose the problem. So as usual, I'm learning to do it myself...
Mechanics now have advantages and resources that we never dreamed of back in the day. They have CDs, online and factory recommendations for trouble shooting right at their finger tips. They can log on, type in their problem and instantly see all of the solutions that other mechanics around the world found for their problem. A lot like we have here on V8Buick.com but in overdrive. For this reason, they really don't need to develop the trouble shooting skills that we did back in the day. In all fairness, these electronic vehicles are so complex that they really couldn't sort through all of that without awesome resources to help them. Because of this complexity and the massive diversity of models, manufacturers, vehicle control systems and electronics compared to what we knew, I think the little details that we care about get lost in the mix.
Hi Tom (TelRiv), I have absolutely no problem with your philosophy. I have said this over and over. I want the shop to do it right the first time. I will pay a fair price. I will not pester the service manager or technician, or attempt to set an unreasonable deadline. Just please... please... FTFT1TO (Fix the Fu----g thing one time only!
i have the Mitchell program they use in shops, with all repair procedures, schematics, part no's, etc, for every make and model car, foreign and domestic for the past 50 years. it's an awesome resource, but there is also the mitchell estimator... shops go by this and others with suggested times for jobs, be it by manufacturer or dealer, i'm not quite sure, but I have a friend that has worked at dealerships and other places, and this happens at all of them... they go off of the book, if it says 4.5 hours for a strut change, even if it takes him 1 hour, you are billed for 4.5 hours of labor. he brags about how he got paid for 80 hours and did maybe 20 hours that week. despicable. almost worse than the healthcare industry.
Must be one of them thar computer thingys you hitch up and it tells us exactly whats wrong with the car...
Please don't equate auto repair to the healthcare industry cesspool! As for flat rate, I like it for the aspect that the more talented and efficient workers get paid more. This system also gets your car done faster because nobody gets paid for sitting on their can. In addition it weeds out some of the techs that are no good because they can't turn enough hours to make a living. The only down side I see is that it can encourage the less scrupulous to cut corners to "make time". Flat rate is initially given by the manufacturer and then the times are refined by real world feed back. In general, brake and A/C guys beat the book times far more than the heavy line (motors, trannies etc.) guys do. But, in most places the heavy line techs are paid more. If you think hours a silly in a mechanical shop, you ought to run a body shop where the standard for a super star tech is turning 100 hours per week. I have seen painters with good systems and procedure in place turn 200 hours of flat rate labor in 1 week. It is not uncommon to pay a really good painter 100k per year in a busy flat rate body shop.
Theres a saying in the automotive repair industry- Live by the book, die by the book. The flat rate is supposed to standardize the industry. The times are created by the manufacturers. So what happens if it takes him longer to perform the repair? Say 5 hours? Maybe he doesnt have that $400 special tool he has to buy out of his own pocket and it takes him 6 hours? Guess what, he has to work 1.5 hours for free. Ask him how much he has invested in tools so he could do those jobs faster? Make sure your sitting down first. I could of bought a restored GSX for the money I have invested in tools. $10k just for my empty toolbox. Your comments bring up another point- should a mechanic be penalized for being proficient at his job? Ask your friend what happens when the shop is slow and he doesnt book any hours.
This is something that most auto repair customers don't have a clue about. A basic line tech used to need a about 25k in tools in the 80s. I can't imagine what that would cost now. A more experienced mechanic that has been in the business for years could easily have as much money in tools as in his home. This is not the shop owner, but the tech.
As a shop owner & tech the equipment I buy today is outdated by the end of the month. This stuff costs big $$$$$. An average could be 10K for smaller stuff & 50K for larger, more complicated equipment. Tools is another area. It's not unusable to have 100K in tools in a tool box that costs 10K+. If, when it comes time where the tools need to be sold for whatever reason you'll be lucky if you can get a nickel on the dollar no matter if they are in brand new condition or not. There are big $$$$ invested in this industry of repairing vehicles that goes unseen & not accounted for. Besides the talent it takes to do PROPER troubleshooting. Jason knows, he deals with it ALL day!!!!!!
So the flat rate allowance for an alignment is 300.00 on a skylark? Seems like a good deal for a shop. New cars require more work to align them right?
