I don't have a vested interest in this topic, but I have been around these cars from the earliest days of this concept of Pure Stock Drags. Everyone has a legitimate complaint about enforcing the rules, so where does everyone want to start. What are you willing to give up? We all know that with the lax interpitation of the rules EVERYONE has taken some liberties with their own combo. X-pipes would be a place to start. This probabley would effect most of the competiters. How about factory listed compression ratios? Any other ideas? Dennis
While X-pipes may be a hot topic that everyone has an opinion on, most of the fastest cars don't have one. Want to talk about shimmed lifters? O.k., anyone wanting to get the same effect without the shims just needs to use shorter pushrods. There are a bunch of smart people out there that will always be able to run at the front of the pack. Whenever you think you have all the holes covered, the thinkers in the crowd will find a better way. That's just the way it is, and always will be.....
there's no need to put the [Genie] back,im not changing anything,we're running by NHRA spec's period,anybody with extra cash [ha,ha]is welcome to de-tune their cars if they would like,but the rules state clearly what's aloud,and im not fix'in something that ain't broke.
Kirk - EVEN NHRA has a list of accepted pistons, Now they build what ever and say . What-- it does nothing ........ Rules have ALWAYS SAID NO LIGHT WEIGHT PARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can people read that GRAY AREA!!! Tell me - PLEASE FREAKIN TELL ME. Stock valve TRAIN _NOW WE CAN RUN ROLLERS!!! MOPARS 727-904 frankinsteins for years, GM guys buy $5000.oo kilgors what part of Stock original for year and model is that? Kirk I love ya man - I've had more than one beer with you and Kenny over the years. Hope to have many more. But No one told anyone to buy bogus parts. So the people that did tough crap!! The F.A.S.T. guys are gettin everyone worked up to smokescreen the fact there comin, Making it OK. to be bogus. How many posts have they put on this board before this fall ? You don't get credit from the cops for buyin drugs after you get busted!! Do you think you should get credited for buying bogus parts?????
Tim,i agree with you on the trans swap's,but i'll bet aleast 50% of the field uses lightweight pistons maybe more,i just don't see Bob & Dan cuting the field in half and forking out their money for our fun.
How about the people that have Muncies where there should be Borg Warners, or Borg Warners where there should be Muncies. For that matter, what about people that have swapped M21's in where there should be a M20 or a M22 or vice versa? Where do you draw the line on legal? Do we have to call in NCIS?? ou:
How to put the Genie back into the bottle? Simple, reinstate the certified stock program, but this time, do not deviate from the rules. In the beginning, though a real PITA, the Certified Stock program proved invaluable in showing the world that these cars, in stock trim, could run low numbers. Once passing the scrutiny of tech officials, the cars were given special treatment, by both the event staff and the media, which they rightfully deserved. Displaying the Certified Stock sticker was a badge of honor. But, for reasons beyond me, questionable parts were allowed, parts exchanges were allowed during the weekend, engines/cars were certified out of the normal tech procedure, etc, basically causing the program to loose all respect within the ranks of PS/FS racing. I realize this program is not for all participants, but for a couple of years it was a way for the ones who believed in the whole Pure Stock concept, to prove to the world that the numbers they ran were done not only within the spirit of the rules, but done by the rules, period. Tom Clary
Hey Denny, X-pipes are the least of the problems. People haven't picked up a second just by switching to an x-pipe. That's not how there goin faster. People wanted to go back to points or no box's and it bit them harder than anyone else - so what happened. Back to aftermarket ignition. When I certified, Bob and Dan sealed your motor for the weekend. If you needed to adjust valves you got someone to stand over you and resealed your motor. Not now. So who knows.
Tim, I'm not saying that any one thing is the reason that everyone is up in arms about the direction that PURE STOCK is headed. You would have to agree that it is an acumalation of many things that have been allowed as STOCK over the years. I asked the question only because, if you guys want this situation turned around, someone needs to suggest specifically what needs to be done. I can't speak for Dan and Bob, but I'm sure neither one of them wants to hear all the griping. Just enforce the current rules! Who is willing to step up to be first in line for CERTIFICATION 2009? Denny
Tim, there are a few FAST guy`s building "pure stock" cars for next year. A few good guy`s looking to run the cars we all enjoy so much, for you to say the cars the FAST guy`s are bringing will be "bogus". and you also say this whole deal is going on right now because of rumors a few guy`s are building cars for the class? That makes you plain ignorant. Get over it already, your probably one of the last hold outs. Blame the FAST guy`s, what a joke and smack in the face. I believe you will find this problem is happening *now* because after *this* Fall there`s Pontiac`s in the 11.60`s, Plymouth`s in the 11.50`s, a couple Vette`s in the 11.30`s, etc. I believe all these cars running killer ET`s are max effort certified stock cars and will pass certification. As the rules are written none of these guy`s are cheating. Good Day!
Dave how fast was your car at the time you where kicked out for cheating with the big cube crate hemi?? Why did you have to go off and start another race? Dave I've always liked you and many others IN the FAST group and enjoyed watching the cars-- But DO YOU see ANY reason that some off us find it hard to swallow. Or to believe.o No: These cars are getting farther and farther from as delivered and more and more NHRA SUPER STOCK class cars, just without the gaudy stickers. And please stop calling them certified stock and maybe start calling them NHRA max effort cars or somthing. Maybe that would take some of the sting out it? Ignorant is one thing , gullable is another. PS thanks for wishing me a good day.
Tim, there is some wrong info out there about my car. I took the Challenger to the PSMCDR just once, it was about 3 weeks after i bought it and it was 100% stock. I guess it felt like a 13.30ish or so?? My Challenger never attended the PSMCDR again, peroid! I was never kicked out of the PSMCDR, i did attend Brads "Factory Stock" race with it because i was invited. I believe I can still pull up those e-mails from Brad, he knew what the car was about. We had our Hemi GTX at the PSMCDR and ran maybe 12.10`s/12.20`s@116 and passed tech and nothing was ever questioned about the car and that`s when that was kind of fast.
I will also get back to you , because you and I e-mailed several times years ago Talking about your car and mine. And you said "you seem to be the kind of guy that always wants to go faster", and you where thinking about starting another race. How the heck did you add the last sentence without it saying last edited??? Are you a moderator?
Tim, I'm not a moderator, but I am a FAST guy...There's ways around everything and as the rules are written for this site, I broke no rule and I'm still legal. Sorry about the above post, it's just that I have never been busted at the PSMCDR, Hodges has never been busted, Cannon never, Cook never even attended. Trust me went a PSMCDR cars rolls from my garage it will be legal.
My thoughts are that these cars are 40 plus years old. Original parts are drying up or if you do find them, cost an arm and a leg. I don't own a truck or trailer and live an hour from the dragstrip. I'm going to build an engine, build the transmission, drive the car to the local hangouts, local car shows, beat on it at the track a couple times a year, etc. Would it make sense to put the car together with inferior 40 year old stock stuff or something a little bit better (and brand new) that will not make me worry about trashing original castings? This just ends up snowballing and before long my car is not within the "spirit of the rules" but still considered stock. It's difficult to be "pure stock" but still have something dependable. As the years go by and our cars get older, it will be more and more difficult to say they are truly stock.
