so i was getting my 455 block ready to go to machine shop for girdle install and when i flip it over i see down in the water jackets and see that my hardblock is gone..i used moroso brand and ran iron-tite sealer in the water.i only filled it to the bottom of the frost plugs.ran the shortblock 3 seasons.has anyone else seen this happen before? i'm going to use hardblock brand next time.
i've done this before,used hardblock filler.could'nt find it last time,so i used moroso.will be taking the motor out of the car soon.i'll have to see what that looks like when i disassemble.
Tom. I have to disagree with you about the epoxy. Epoxy when heated expands and has been known to seize pistons and cause horrific damage. The brand Hardfblok is the only block filler that works like it is supposed to. It installs without expanding or contracting after curing. The brand X block fillers, depending on which one can do either. It will stay in the block FOREVER. It is better to run about .001 more clearance when using Hardblok is because of no dissipation of heat in the lower part of the cylinder. I have used Hardblok for nearly 20 years in street, round track and drag racing applications with perfect results as long as you educate the customer on how to operate the engine.
Hey mike. could you elaborate with some of your expertise with hard block? is it piston clearance or bearing clearance that needs the extra thou? what if its just a short fill does that still apply. and what you mean about As long As they know how to operate it? thanks
That's what these forums are all about Mike, to learn & wonder what if. While I don't claim to be an authorized engine builder of any type. I surely don't have any-where's near the experience or capability's you have. But, I've done my far share of building many different types of engines. I've done 400/430/455's. Many "Nails". Pontiac, Caddy, Ford, Mopar, etc. I don't know about today's "Hard Bloc" as I do about the earlier stuff. I do KNOW that it will crack & disintegrate if there is any real vibration inducing harmonics. Then it gets distributed throughout the cooling system & is flushed out during the normal maintenance routine. Of course this is not good for the water pump, timing case cover, radiator or other parts. Could be this is what has happened to Dan & others I know. My experience with the "Epoxy" has been positive so far to this point in "My" life. So at this point we have a friendly type of "Agree to Dis-agree. With that said, TO EVERYONE, HAVE A WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS & the BEST NEW YEAR EVER!!!!!!!! See many on the 14th. in Fishkill.
We add an extra .001 cylinder wall clearance to blocks with a tall fill of Hardblok. That being said I am talking about engines with forged pistons only. An engine with cast pistons is not a candidate for block filling. I have done a dozen or do BB Buick street engines with about 1 1/2 inches of Hardblok without any extra clearance. As far as operation goes in a street fill there is almost no difference. In a short fill or tall fill, the oil temperature will raise at a quicker rate because of the block not having as much water where the oil returns. Because of that in a round track "short fill" that we do to Chevy's you have to run an oil cooler and it is best to use synthetic oil. In a "tall fill" drag race application back to back runs are somewhat limited because of cool down time.
Tom, Your one of the sharper cookies on this forum so I cant diss you in any way. Your good experience with epoxy is one of a couple that I have heard of and I am sure it is all in how you did the machine work to compensate for it. I know that the expansion rate of epoxy is greater that that of cast iron and that Hardblok is the same and I must emphasize the brand Hardblok I assure you that the brand Hardblok (www.hardblok.com) will not deteriorate, crack, disintegrate or in any way harm the cooling system unless installed improperly, which is pretty hard to do. There is a cutaway on their site of a 454 Chevy ran in a Pro-mod car back in the late 80s that belonged to Joel Bayless. That was the first run of Hardblok and the only changes since that batch has been a minor change in the amount of cast iron to the mix. There once was a product called block rock that may have been gypsum based as one of the other Brand X products are. I have also seen people use common grout from a hardware store that deteriorated. After installation of Hardblok all you have to do is flush out the water jackets and there should be no more residue to harm anything. I guess I have been a little passionate about this topic as I was instrumental in the first use of Hardblok in a round track application back in the early 90s and the subsequently being the shop that their installation video was shot in and also being a rep for them at trade shows for a few years.
I am with Tom we have use Moroso and the Hardblok in the Past we have not had good look with it with just water or the Antifreeze and water Mix. Epoxy seem to work good for use with no extra Cylinder wall Clearance. water or Antifreeze and water mix has been good to use no problems.
